maadmax

--Lemme ask you this. If on earth the mind of an alzheimer's sufferer is destroyed, then what happens to that person when they die? Do they get their mind back? If so, from where do they get it? Either you are right or the mind is simply a mechanism used by the soul/consciousness to collect and store sensory input and communicate in the world. There are plenty of cases where part of the brain was destroyed and the individual became mentally incompetent. But after neural regeneration or development of new neurological pathways the original personality was restored. And no, the Alzheimer's sufferer doesn't get their mind back. They never lost it. They have obviously lost their ability to interface with the world. I believe that once released from their bodies, their consciousness and spiritual senses function unrestricted. ...

--Sounds like people CAN escape responsibility for lifelong actions as long as they do something for an instant. It's the religious "escape clause" that atheists do not have; they are indeed held responsible for their actions. Yes we can escape the consequences of our evil actions. It is called grace, it is a gift from God. The work of Christ freed us from what we deserve. If we refuse the gift then we stand on our own.

There is, of course ZERO evidence to support that conjecture despite millennia of searching for it. And as I am sure we both know, what appears to be zero evidence to one may not be equal to nonexistence.

Well, several religions consider deathbed conversions after a life of sin, or martyrdom, to be sufficient to grant one admission to heaven/paradise. Given that, your claim that religious adherents have more "responsibility for their actions" seems pretty absurd; indeed, it seems like the opposite is true. Do whatever you want, as long as you repent in the last, say, 30 seconds of your life (or die violently as a martyr.) My claim is that nobody escapes responsibility for their actions. And maybe a life of good deeds is not as important as union with God, even if only for an instant. When the low times of life completely strip us of our pride, as in the death process, it is easier for some to finally see the love of God and accept it. Our righteousness is insignificant when compared to the righteousness of God, which we receive once we are one with Him. ...

From what comes next, after death. If spiritual energy is a reality, it may be eternal like physical matter and energy. Our actions in this life may receive their accumulated wrath or blessing.

Just what it says. A scientific law is something that expresses a fundamental principle of science, like the Law of Gravity. There are no such laws for consciousness, since we cannot easily quantify much of what goes in to defining someone's consciousness. It's an emergent rather than a fundamental property of the universe. As you say, science explains a lot of the phenomena that has mystified our species for millennia. But as far as our most important asset, consciousness, science has no explanation. Whether we see an eternal consciousness as the source of the universe or the inanimate universe as the source of consciousness, faith is required in an intellectual/spiritual construct. Whether the good or evil of our personal actions have any consequence is also a matter of faith in a belief system. At some point our conscious existence on earth will end. If the salvation preached by atheists is true, then there will be nothing. We are saved from being responsible for our actions. If on the other hand consciousness is not emergent but eternal, we my need to assume responsibility for how we used the gift of consciousness we were given. And if eternal consciousness has a value system, we will need a saviour. ...

It's an emergent rather than a fundamental property of the universe. Interesting, so when science fails you put your faith in an intellectual construct and trust it to provide for your salvation.

--That would be the laws of physics, chemistry and thermodynamics. They are pretty well known. OK, but those reactions follow the law of entropy. They can't re-prime the universe for a creative singularity. --There are no "laws of consciousness". What does that mean ? Possibly an unknown force, or maybe it just doesn't exist. ...

Nice article, I love particle physics. Wasn't exactly out of nothing, since the energy of the two colliding protons traveling at near light speed was converted into mass of the anti-bottom beauty quark. Of course with quantum physics you never know what will pop up.

--What "unnamed undiscovered" force? the anti-entropic force that produces life and the order we see in the universe. > It would have to be powerful enough to create all the laws of physics . . . ---Or they already existed. So are you saying the laws of physics have always existed but our consciousness is a new transitory development by a quirk of random chance. Or that all things, the laws and physics and consciousness, have always existed and more than likely will continue to exist. ...

Nothing was *precisely established* in the beginning. Every little step in nature lead to next one. It just grew. Then that unnamed undiscovered force must be one of the strongest in the universe. Possibly more profound than the theorized Higgs bozon. It would have to be powerful enough to create all the laws of physics, direct a pinpoint singularity to produce an amorphous plasma soup which organizes into this diverse cosmos and ultimately creates us to observe its handiwork.

That's not the same as making something out of nothing. 14 Billion years ago nothing in our universe existed. Something had to have happened to get us here where we find ourselves now.

No argument there. Unless you go back to the beginning. How did the laws of nature become so precisely established? Why is there something instead of nothing?

How do I make rock candy? Stick it in the freezer.

The belief that DNA, life , and everything else , "just happened."

As far as we know, DNA is a "code" that was not designed by a conscious mind. His opinion may be that a supernatural designer is the best explanation, but he presents no real evidence to support this claim. And since he is the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on him. I do like that he incorporates the idea of evolution into his creationist beliefs. I don't see any reason why the two should be mutually exclusive. The evidence for evolution is pretty strong, and perhaps it goes against certain religious beliefs, but it is not evidence of the non-existence of a god. Just out of curiosity what is the name of the natural force or process you are referring to that can make something out of nothing? Evolution is just an observation. Entropy, on the other hand, is a known physical law that dictates the organization of matter and energy. ...

You must know that conclusion is pure conjecture on your part. You are making the few fact we know about consciousness fit your preconceived ideas about reality. Why does self awareness have to be limited to neurological tissue? It is just as reasonable to assume other physical media or energy could support consciousness. And with our recent understanding of entanglement, an omnipresent God is not so far fetched. ...

that is somewhat limited way of looking at life. Why confine your life with the fictional characters you describe. Just take a look around you, the universe is much grander than you can imagine, We are not cast in a central stage with central roles. Science is telling us we are nothing special and will never be, on the contrary we are really miniscule, now that is what makes it worth living for, to cherish that you are special because you came into being. If you are so sure that we are insignificant and that science has all the answers, tell me how self consciousness arises form inorganic and organic chemistry. What combination of hadrons and leptons will ever produce love? On the contrary we are uniquely special. We are created in God's image to be with God for eternity.

---Genesis 6 Is the story of the flood. No aliens anywhere. Gen 6:2 & 4 sons of God & Nephilim were extraterrestrial beings. --Dude, you've proved it........ --once again that the bible is so vague that someone will try to use it to further their arguments about anything. These passages have absolutely nothing to do with extra terrestrial life. Or are you going to claim that the heavenly host is aliens? Or that 12 legions of angels are actually aliens? Are you going to next make reference to the angels who starred in The Abyss? along with many other references of extraterrestrial, multidimensional beings --Care to list a few of those? Do you guys just think that listing off bible passages is going to make you sound credible? The Bible contains many references to extraterrestrial life forms referred to as angels. Credibility is not possible without a similar belief system and frame of reference. ....

Where abouts, please? Luke 2:13, Matt 26:53, Genesis 6, along with many other references of extraterrestrial, multidimensional beings. Who else do you think resides in the multidimensional multiverses.

If/when alien life is discovered in the universe, will that magically solve the problems of depravity and alienation toward God we face as a species? As I understand it, the Kingdom of God deals mainly with restoration and regeneration of the soul/mind so that we can gain fellowship with God. External circumstances including alien life, which the Bible already describes, are secondary.

Like you, I have been reading about, listening to tapes and lectures and discussing the tribulation since I surrendered to Jesus in 1981. Bottom line, I don't have a clear understanding beyond the basic prophetic time line. 1. The anti-christ will establish world peace through world order. 2. The peace will last 3.5 years until he defiles the temple in Jerusalem. 3. Chaos, misery, death, disease and worse maladies will begin and last the final 3.5 years. 4. Jesus Christ will return in the flesh at Mt. Olivet and begin His millennial reign following the defeat of the anti-christ an his minions on the Plain of Megiddo. +1 and much much more. ...

The best discussion on Evil that I have ever read. http://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597 I would agree 100%, it open my eyes! ...

That is how the Bible describes us after our ancestors gained the ability to explore the knowledge of good and evil. As a species, it looks like we bit off more than we could chew.

Sure, freedom is the basis of evil and good. All free will choices have an effect. Some choices lead one towards God, other choices lead away from God.