maadmax

Like this was anything new. It is amusing to watch atheists peddle their bag of rocks like they were the jewels of the universe. I guess they are trying to save the world from the "intellectual hell" of God consciousness. Knock yourselves out, you will never succeed.

I don't think anyone knows how a belief in god(s) came about, most likely it came from not understanding the natural world. The more we understand science, the less we need to believe that a supreme power is responsible for events that we do not understand. http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2010/07/sciences-dead-end/ I think your faith in science may be a bit blind. ..."The implications are obvious enough. While it might be possible to know everything about the physical materiality of the brain down to the last atom, its “product,” the five cardinal mysteries of the non-material mind are still unaccounted for: subjective awareness; free will; how memories are stored and retrieved; the “higher” faculties of reason and imagination; and that unique sense of personal identity that changes and matures over time but remains the same."... ...

---Disagree. There is NO evidence to support the Olivet discourse is even talking about a future occurrence let alone the one talked about in Revelations. ---The two simply can not be reconciled. They describe wildly different events. ---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivet_discourse Nice summary in Wikipedia. Interpretation is yours to choose from what ever makes the most sense. I have put in a lot of time studying this area, as it appears so have you. We have come to different conclusions. --I am curious of your background.Stay thirsty my friend. On this I whole heartedly agree

Wrong again. Matt 24:1-51, Luke 21:7-36, Mark 13:1-37 & Daniel 9: 22-27, Daniel 12:11&12 (Reference Jesus made regarding writings of Daniel in Matt 24:15) I am curious of your background. You seem to know bits and pieces but never the complete story. ...

But What If God Disappeared? Then doing the right thing for the right reason would certainly change. Every one would have their own right reasons and all of the fruits of the spirit would also be corrupted. By the way the Bible does foretell of a 7 year period when this very scenario takes place. Your wish shall be granted. ...

I, as a Christian, see the Old Testament writings and the Jewish people as the source of God's initial formalized contact with the human race. Not that He didn't present Himself in many ways to our ancestors who predated the Jewish people. I believe the purpose of the Old Testament writings was for establishing God's Truth in a form understandable to those living at that time and preparing for the arrival and work of the Messiah. Jesus, the Son of God, fulfilled many of the open ended rituals and teachings of the Old Testament. Making them no longer valid or necessary to practice in this period of time. ...

Which is what I knew all along. And doesn't change the fact that if God was all knowing and all powerful, why would he have not chosen an ideal and perfect way to communicate his teachings in the first place, and not relied on sending a proxy to correct or adjust his previous teachings or ideals in any way. They would be, from the beginning - perfect. That is easy. Either God is as you say a myth, and the myth is no better than the myth makers. OR The aspects you think are important in a good plan, don't coincide with what God thinks. The plan I see unfolding from the Bible superimposed on reality is absolutely stunning. ...

Just to touch on this... So basically either God was wrong or Jesus was? Or God made a mistake? Which apparently he doesn't do. Does Jesus outrank God? think logically, as they contradict in many parts. Unless you want to use typical Christian logic and suggest that one can pick which parts of what God said should be omitted and what should stay. No wonder God let his only son die on a cross, he came down here and started outranking and contradicting him. If you ever tire of your verbal flatulence and would like to understand how Christians understand the Old Testament and New Testament differences. Do a litter research in the Theological area of Dispensations,Christology, and Hamartilogy. If you wish to converse on a subject the least you can do is know a little bit about it. ...

I believe it is the process we go through when we try to come to grips with that which can never be known. Why else would anyone claim to be a democrat and have the answers in the same sentence? That has always been a mystery to me. ...

I think there are just too many differences in the two books on the birth of Jesus to be just explained away. Do I claim to be any kind of expert on the bible? not a chance. ........ The main objection I have is people that believe the bible is the inerrant word of God and this is why I become a bit over zealous at times in trying to prove it otherwise. Do you know what is really miraculous about the Bible? That even though you may or may not understand it, that fact has absolutely no bearing on the Bible serving as a conduit of God's Message to me. My life has been transformed and I have been liberated all the while being a thorn in your ass. I think that is just amazing. And please don't let your heart be troubled, I promise I won't tell you things to do. ...

---I think there are too many contradictions that simply cannot be reconciled. Most Christians read the gospels and then combine them into one big gospel. The gospels were written by different people who had different agendas. Quote You have done an impressive amount of study in this area. I respect that. But I am afraid that you give yourself a lot more credibility in Biblical textual criticism than you are entitled to. Some of your points are valid, others are just ignorant . Obviously accepted to support your preconceived notions about Biblical content. I am sure you are convinced of your view points such that you sleep well enough at night. And let me put any fears you may have to rest that I may someday tell you what you can and cannot do. I promise I won't ever do that. Most of the contradictions you mentioned and others that you haven't, are easily enough resolved when you examine the ancient greek new testament manuscripts that are available. But I am sure that like those pseudoscience people, It ain't going to happen. As we all know ignorance can sometimes be blissful. ...

--You do realize that the gospels were written 35-70 years after the death of Jesus, and that we have no origional copies of the gospels. In fact we do not even have copies of copies of copies of copies of the origionals. In fact, the earliest manuscrips were written in Greek using the oral stories of jesus passed from person to person to person over tens of years. The gospels are riddled with a few mistakes and contradictions that to claim they are the inerrant word of God is laughable That was my point. Despite some minor translational and copying problems the message of the Bible comes through loud and clear. We need God to make us whole and He is there . The Bible is the starting point, seeing God work through the experiences of ones life is what really counts.

Don't despair you may yet get the chance to wear it on your forehead or your right hand.

Oh really? How can I possibly know which one is "the Truth" since in just these two examples the meanings are wildly different? Well, do your research, study, pray, and allow the Holy Spirit to teach you. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding. You should give it a try.

So, your bible is better than my bible because the language is different, yet somehow it's all the word of god? How exactly does that work? Haven't you noticed, God gave us His Word and lets us do what we will with it. We can search its mysteries for the Truth it contains. Or we can bend and twist it to suit our evil desires.

Translated: I have no reason to think that the one I believe in is correct, except that it is the one I believe in. You're right, we knew that was the only answer you could give. Yes, since you appear to understand and hold the keys to your spiritual universe, hopefully you will choose correctly.

I don't know what version you're using, but Luke 22:70 of the King James says; , according to John. You can hang with the King James if you like, but I find the translation sometimes inadequate when compared with what Biblical scholarship has to offer today. The New American Standard version takes advantage of the improved understanding in areas of hermenutics, isagogics, exegesis, etymology, and the ancient Aramaic, Hebrew, Koine & Classical greek languages. It strives to be true to the original languages, be grammatically correct . King James of England just hired a bunch of Koine greek and Hebrew translators. Some of whom were not believers and probably didn't understand what they were translating.

I don't believe Jesus ever said he was god or even the son of god. The "I am who I am" guy is either the god talking to Moses or is Popeye (paraphrased of course). Luke 22:70 And they all said " Are you the Son of God then?". And He said to them "Yes I am". John 10:30 "I and the Father are One" Popeye - thats funny

--Ok, so which god exactly did you put your faith into, and why is he the one true god and not one of the other thousands of gods? What would be the difference between you and your true god and someone who believes in Zues or Atlantis as the one true god? If faith alone is good enough for your god to be true, isn't it good enough for them also? If you try to say zues and atlas are ridiculous examples (they are no more ridiculous than any gods which are believed in today) then what about the Muslim god? I love the way that question is phrased. Like it is the ultimate " I am going to shut those Christians up with this one". And of course everyone who asks that question already knows the answer. The choice is up to you, to answer from your very own free will. You will either choose God, or gods, or no god. You can even make yourself god. The one certainty is that what ever choice you make, you will reap where you have sown. For me , I believe Jesus is who He says He is. The Truth, the Way , and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him. ...

Theories of complexity are not limited to evolution but to the entire structure of the universe. Science has no explanation for why complexity occurs. Wrong wrong WRONG. http://www.mth.uct.ac.za/~ellis/nature.pdf ...

You wouldn't have to prove that a god exists you just have to show evidence to suggest there is a god. The fact that there is complex life doesn't not mean there is a god. We have a lots of evidence supporting evolution yet none supporting creationism. edited to add: You seem to think because we can't explain everything that there must be a god. Historically god has always been the catch all for everything we don't understand. As we learn more and more about the world around us humans attribute less and less to god. I think it's unreasonable and short sighted to simply attribute anything we don't understand to some god that we have no evidence of and it's also the lazy way out. It basically puts a stop to scientific advancement. Imagine if no one ever questioned the belief that the earth was flat or that the earth revolved around the sun. These were beliefs that Christianity really wanted to hold onto and considered it blasphemy to suggest anything different. Theories of complexity are not limited to evolution but to the entire structure of the universe. Science has no explanation for why complexity occurs. The only problem with waiting for somebody to prove God exists is that your life is ticking away, and you are losing valuable opportunities to redeem the time you have been given. Acknowledging God and growing in grace is not a hindrance to scientific discovery. ...

A straw man isn't necessary. The fact that there is no evidence of any god regardless of your how you define god is enough support disbelief. You have got to know this whole excuse of God's doesn't exist because science can't prove He exists is a bunch of crap. There is such a huge hole in science being the defining last word on reality that it is laughable. Physics has nothing to say about the development of complexity. Yes they give a reductionist view of the mechanics behind matter and energy, but nothing in any of the scientific theories explains how or why complexity occurs. To over look this small point disqualifies one from a realistic discussion on the big picture of reality.

It is worth noting that this passage, & many others like it is the reason why people have been debating for centuries, & are in one of two camps - Calvinism and Arminianism. There are just two many contradictions & inconsistencies to explain; the bible doesn't hold together nearly as well as Christians like to claim that it does. It is interesting to see what trips people up. Some get bent out of shape when they can't understand God's concept of knowledge in relation to time. Just a cursory look and general relativity will tell you that the understanding of time and space is complex. And that for us, with only a linear uni-dimensional view of time and space, reality would look a lot different than it does with God's multi-dimensional view of time and space. The theory of general relativity says that the time arrow is multi-directional. God must see everything happening linearly like we do and simultaneous all at the same time. With that in mind, questions like , "how do He know what I am going to do, before I do" and "If He know what I do before I do it, how do I have any say in the matter" become irrelevant. Unless of course you just want to find a straw man to bolster unbelief. ...

--how do you justify eternal punishment, man?... I'm sorry, but society wouldn't even condemn Hitler to burn forever. Furthermore, how do you reconcile a loving god - but one who also is willing to send people to hell? The god of the bible sounds like an egotistical, power-tripping pricK... I'm not interested. Personally , I think the concept of hell is a bit over blown. Allegorical fire is used in the Bible to cleanse both those who love God and those who don't. I imagine hell will be a place of regret over lost opportunities. What ever the place is, it is not Gods best for us. ...

---Surely, the original story was anything but the version that we have in the present day; the thing with myths is the longer they survive & are passed on, the more they are believed, & more so, defended with [supposed] rationale Myths that are false fade away and pass out of our collective consciousness. Truth, survives cultures and time because it is always relevant. ...