maadmax

So my question to Fundamentalists is: How do you explain all of this? Hi Gary nice to see you in SC. It sounds like you already have your conclusions drawn. Ziggarats( tower of Babel) were a common component of temple complexes in early cities of Southern Mesopotania from the 5th to 3rd millennia BCE. My understanding of the Biblical story of the Ziggarat at Babel was to depict the dangers of corporate self-deification. A common theme through out the Biblical record. Reaching heaven was a mental/spiritual destination not a physical one. When a group of men think they can replace the Truth of God with that of their own, trouble follows. Just look at Nazi Germany.

Yes, welcome, it it nice to have you join us.

That is so ridiculous it is pretty much undefineable. That logic under any other topic would probably get a person labeled neurotic. Label me as you like. I once tried to discern reality like you, limiting it to what little my mind could comprehend. Comparing what I know now to what I knew then, I am glad to be a fool for God any day:)

So the torturous death of a child is all part of HIS plan. Of course not, but our free will is a part of His plan. And because of that there will be suffering until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

I wonder why the will of a loving caring omnipotent omniscient God is that she should die a horrible tortuous death. If you knew the plan of Him whom you disbelieve it would not be that hard to understand. On a side note, how many of you who are indignant over this heinous crime support abortion?

My only concern is when some loon decides that their belief in supernatural entities gives them the right to interfere with my rights and laws. Other than that, They are nothing more than passing amusements AFAIK. However, we should enjoy it while we can. Atheists are now the fastest growing segment of the US secular society. When I moved here 18 years ago, it was 4%. Now it's 11% and growing. So what is it this growing body of atheists have to offer? TRUTH? If we come from nothing and will return to nothing, does it matter what anybody does or believes? Does truth even exist? Right wingers, leftist liberals, fanatic moslems, angry atheists, so what, some of us will be happy and some won't. Will being able to create individual metaphysical universes, where we all do what is right in our own eyes, make the world a happier place? How is this incomplete science based salvation atheists are presenting going to tip the well being scale to a favorable direction? And since in the end none of it matters anyway, why do you care? Since truth is just a relative value. ...

I see spirituality as another means of describing the psychological part of our existence. The laws of science are inadequate to explain the psychological make up of an individual. Psychologists and Psychiatrists are spiritual teachers in a way. But pale in comparison to the True Spiritual teachings provided in the Word of God. Constructing a reality with spiritual Truth produces the fruits of the spirit, failing to do so results in chaos.

+1 ...

...I'd go along with that and still say religion is of no benefit to modern society whatsoever. I agree, but a personal relationship with God yields the greatest benefits of all. The only light science will ever cast on the path to God, is the sheer improbability of our arriving here in this finely tuned universe by random chance. Given the mere 13.7 billion years it has existed.

Then if your god is so great, fair and loving. Why is Mohammed the most popular name on the planet.? And why are millions of people never exposed to christianity, and even if they are, would be ostracized out of their community if they decided to follow it. It hardly seems fair when the majority of the population of the world are in this situation?? How is your particular god just in ensuring this situation? Start aiming for unity and peace, not segregation and war, then you may find we already live in heaven but don't wish to acknowledge it. God has given us a time to exercise our free will. To embrace His value system or create our own. This time is finite and will end. He gives us a way out through His Word, so that we don't have to conform to the strife and discord of the worlds system. The manifestation of His Word produces love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, & self control. A persons actions tell more about where they have placed their faith than what they say. ...

Talk about a misnomer. God has nothing to do with science. I don't know about your god, but my God is science along with everything else. " All things came into being through Him; and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

That would make the location . . . in your head (or mind). Yep, He is definetly there to.

Where exactly did you find him? Location please. Absolutely everywhere! Haven't you heard about the "god particle". But my most important point of contact is spiritual, with the goal of spiritual regeneration.

It turns out, of course, that those were just forces of nature interacting with each other to create what we perceive to be an artificial level symmetry and order. I like the way you think. Now once we track down where the the laws of nature come from and the matter and energy that responds to their rigid control, we will remove the last layers of the mystery and get closer to the source. ...

You are certain that Christianity holds the patent on creationism? Atheism and Christianity are not the black and white of all religious debate. How about deism or any number of other beliefs? I am certain of very little. I have studied much and keep an open mind reguarding all things. But one thing I am certain of is that the Light of God's Word has set me free. ...

i dont accept or reject god(s), just humbly seek proof. any. not a bible verse not a lesson, on how to look internally. just simple, scientific, tangible proof. The odds of a tornado going through a paint shop and producing a masterpiece can't be less probable than the creation we see around along with the physical laws that keep it functioning. Yet no one seems to have a problem ruling out that possibility when a painting is discovered with an unknown artist. The proof is everywhere. Look in or look out, but if you look with preconceptions, what ever you find will validate them. Jesus said we have to seek God with the eyes of a child. ...

Who am I to question God A sentient being with the capacity to do so. I love that response! Seriously. One can argue theologically/philosophically that if an all-knowing God gave us the capacity to do so, that it is entirely reasonable for people to do so. /Marg And so we do. If we self deify, we reject God and elevate ourselves. If we humble ourselves and seek God, we easily find Him. ...

Would you agree that your message sounds absolutely groundless for non-Christians, and therefore makes no sense for non-Christian public? Yes. but one can hope that someday they would finally see and enjoy the blessings of God. _________________________________________ _________________________________________ Would you agree that anyone who is Christian believes that he already developed personal relationship with God, so for them your message is redundant, and therefore makes no sense for Christian public? Disagree, I always enjoy hearing things pertaining to God no matter how many times I have heard them before. ...

... I hate to be negative, but we don't seem to be speaking the same language here, guys. I'm not capable of abdicating basic judgement functions nor believing there is anything wrong with using such judgement. Its what the mind is FOR. -B I think you summed it up nicely. We are not speaking of the same thing. I see reality consisting of two parts. Physical reality, which we are finally beginning to understand through scientific discorery, and metaphysical reality, which each of us create in our minds. The combination of the two determines what is real for us. When one, such as Hitler, determines right from wrong, great evil is produced. Hitler's actions were either good or bad depending on which side you stood. Left to our own rationality we are all guilty of Hitler's sin to some extent. Faith in Christ, spiritual regeneration, and fellowship with God can free us from that destiny. ...

The baroque and complex illusory structures I always see christians talking about just do not process at all. WTF is a "sin barrier?" To see God, we must perceive Him as He originally created us, perfect and uncorrupted. Sin obscures the existence of God and turns His Words into gibberish. Through sin we replace God and insert ourselves as creator, deciding right from wrong. ...

My point is that good works are only a minor part of the Christian message. The main message of Christianity is developing a personal relationship with God. After that transformation, good works naturally follow from a regenerated spirit. Good works alone can not produce this relationship only faith in Christ. ...

"Live well, get an education, do something that you enjoy doing, make some money doing it if you can, try to leave the world a better place than you left it, and be kind to others." I could come up with more, All done without ANY Christian or Biblical influence...... Nice platitudes but you still miss the point. Jesus came to neutralize the sin barrier and restore our relationship with God. Good works done out of a selfless love for humanity (and God) are just a by product. ...

I can't see that I deserve anything in the way of rights or material possessions. I am entitled to what I have earned as long as I can keep someone else from taking it form me or I choose to give it away. I do deserve to be held responsible for the consequences of my sinful failures, but due to the Grace of God that debt has been canceled. ..

isn't that the same city that had no problem telling the old Skydive Monroe to get lost? It was. But thanks to the USPA, the FAA, a Federally funded airport, and a persistent individual, weeeer back bigger and better.

Max! what the? YOU are stirring the pot. Quote Surely not. That is, if people are not taking themselves to seriously