TankBuster

I wasn't talking about election ethics, but, I'm guessing you just want to shift the target a bit. I'm no big McCain supporter, I just believe him to be the lesser of the two evils. He has a lot of problems, and I'll gladly share them with you. But for some reason, you guys defend Obama no matter what. Does it bother you at all that he took such a principled stand for public finance and then turned on a dime? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Well, that's exactly the point, isn't it? Taking a principled stand on reform, until it applies to his campaign...... The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

No my point is that "Obama The Great Reformer's" position in favor of public finance changed. In February of 2007, in the New York Times, he challenged the Republicans in the presidential race to promise they too would take public financing in the general election. In November of 2007 he told the Midwest Democracy Network "If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election." His flipflop is old news, but I'm sure it's too much to hope that he will pursue his socialist agenda with the same ardor. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Because the landslide is already happening. This endorsement, plus the $150 million flowing to Obama in September, more than half of it from NEW donors. As they say, "follow the money". 'Follow the money' like the $800k he gave ACORN, or 'follow the money' like the donations from 'Edrty Eddty' ($250) and 'Es Esh' ($250)? Or maybe the donations from 'Good Will' ($17,375) or 'Doodad Pro' ($19,500) - well over the maximum allowable of $4600 between the primary and general election. Or, perhaps the approximately $39 MILLION dollars that have come in from overseas sources? Yeah, let's follow THAT money!! Yeah, follow all that money. The money he promised not to take. The money he said causes special interest to have too much influence. What a true reformer! Oh, but then he found out how much money he could raise by reneging on that promise. A real reformer, that one. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Oh I can accept most of that. I don't think Bush lied, but that's your mantra and I won't attempt to take it from you. I believe the decisions were made in good faith. Made by Bush AND the majority of Congress. It takes people with guts to make tough decisions. Any pussy playing armchair quarterback can sit back and question a decision after the fact. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

You can spout this bullshit all day long, but to demonize Bush for it when a bunch of high level liberals supported it even before Bush took office is simply ridiculous. The UN was proving how toothless they were after our inspection teams were kicked out, and a decision had to be made. Thats what leaders do. They make decisions, not vote "present." Was it the right one? Maybe. Maybe not. It has been expensive, in terms of money and lives. But if allowed to keep his weapons research and chemical facilities intact Hussein (the dead one) might have been able to provide weapons to terrorists. He'd certainly shown his penchant for using them in the past. What would have happened? Please, wise one, consult thy crystal ball and inform us. Had we done nothing and terrorists had used a dirty nuke or chemical weapon of Iraqi origin, you guys would be calling for his head. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

False pretenses? Do you disagree with these folks? http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h122/ricochet69/forum%20pics/?action=view¤t=dems-wmd-before-iraq.flv The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Exactly. And one reason Obama will be elected is that many don't make that distinction. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

True, but the only political points come from the chosen one's own mouth. Getting him to actually voice his love of wealth redistribution is definitely a coup. If only it were true. politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/18/fact-check-obama-said-he-would-spread-his-wealth-around/ But it is, no matter how your liberal author spins it. "Right now, everybody's so pinched that business is bad for everybody. And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Exactly. And have you noticed that one of BHO's favorite lines goes something like "McCain wants to give tax cuts to wealthy corporations that ship our jobs overseas?" Well yeah. But here's the BIG problem. BHO is not an idiot, or a Muslim, or a terrorist as some want to characterize him. What he iz iz, a typical politician, born and raised (politically) in the Chicago Machine, who knows exactly what he's saying is false but great rhetoric that the uneducated masses will buy, and will get him elected. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

True, but the only political points come from the chosen one's own mouth. Getting him to actually voice his love of wealth redistribution is definitely a coup. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

The sad thing Mike is we keep drifting closer and closer and no one seems to care. Social Security and the income tax were the two largest steps, and we now look at them as the norm. Government education certainly has its merits, but efforts to reform cases of dismally poor performance have met with resistance by the left. The trend toward abolishment of inheritance rights will most certainly come back under Obama and Reid/Pelosi. And now steps to control the banks. Here are Uncle Karl's ten steps. Again. 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance. 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. 5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly. 6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state. 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. 8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country. 10. Free education for all children in public schools Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Obama supports the Fair Tax and picks Palin for a running mate. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Hmmm. He renigs on a deal with her, then has her (and the other Democrats) thrown off the ballot rather than let the voters decide. He knew she would have won, being the incumbent. Yep. A real stand up guy. Crooked politics, especially in Chicago, is the norm. That's fine, but we need to call it what it is. He's not a reformer, not a "new age" politician. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Are you forgetting the deeds???? Ye shall know them by their deeds. Seems many of the radicals you hate so much have gone on to do many good deeds..the contrition is in turning their lives aroiund and helping others.. yet you and others on the self identified "conservative " side run them down.... Again.. whose life on balance is more christ like?? The only one I've "run down" is Ayers. If you know of others I hate, you need to let me know. Are you seriously defending Ayers as Christ-like? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

What? Why ineffective? As a part of her faith in a good and just God, a pastor is praying over her and asking for God's help. That may seem strange to some, especially non-believers, but it really isn't all that radical. Are you seriously trying to make a comparison to some of Wright's rants? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

How do you feel about your VP having her demons cast out? You post this because, I assume, it seems very unusual behavior. I've had people pray over me, albeit not after breathing helium, and it is very uplifting. What this preacher prays for is for God to help her, to lift her up, to protect her. Some of the words are unintelligible, but for the most part his words are a positive intercession on her behalf. Certainly not the hate filled speech of the good reverend Wright. Are you attempting to compare the two? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Apparently a hell of a lot of the christian religious right are incapable of forgiving peoples past... things they did in the 1960's when they were far younger... I guess they must not really be christian after all. Many of the radacals of the 60's and 70's changed and became productive members of society.. and actually lived lives that Jesus Christ would certainly have approved of. Is the religious right capable of walking the walk or do they just talk the talk?? Why is that??? Forgiveness is spiritual gift and for most it requires that it is desired by the errant individual. Ayers brags about his role and wishes he had done more. Even if he was repentant, there are, or should be, societal consequences for behavior. To think that one can engage in that type of murderous behavior, brag about it, brag about getting away with it, and then be accepted as a normal member of society in order to serve a "good cause" (which it was not) is incomprehensible. And to answer your veiled PA, I am a Christian after all. Not perfect, but a Christian. Forgiveness is a process in most cases that, like I said, usually involves some contrition by the offending party. I can forgive Ayers, but he and his supporters should be held accountable and scrutinized. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Just to mention, Obama isn't the "messiah". He may just look that way by comparison to where we've set our standards. We apparently want a President who you want to get drunk with and a VP who you can identify with at a church supper or a shooting range. I can only imagine what today's right wing would call a Thomas Jefferson. "He's too smart, he's elitist, he's too popular, he's arrogant, him and his two dollar words he probably thinks we're low life scum". Ok, that last one, he might. When will we expect more, and demand more from our leaders? You obviously have different standards of conduct than I. Obama won his seat in the Illinois state senate by having all of the Democratic opposition kicked off the ballot on pettition technicalities. THAT is good old Chicago Machine dirty politics, not change, not reform. Not even close to "messianic" behavior. Certainly makes no tingle run up my leg. TJ would certainly roll over in the grave. I wouldn't mind sharing a brew with the Prez, but where does the "get drunk" comment come from? I certainly would rather see my VP at a normal church supper than at a Jeremiah Wright rally. I'd love to shoot with her too, and I don't get the negative there. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

So you disapprove of the Annenbergs and the governor of South Carolina. (FYI, that search took me about 8 seconds). Absolutely. Ayers admitted his role in bombings and bragged about getting off on a technicality. He said he wished he had done more. Anyone who lends credibility to such an individual exhibits questionable judgement. You are to be commended on your google skills. You are obviously in the 140 club. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

You can't be serious??? We need a new "Candy Ass" forum where we can go to blow Obamessia sunshine up each other's ass. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Apparently, a generous dose of naivete and self aggrandizing comes with that stellar IQ. No true public servant will work with self proclaimed, unrepentant anti American terrorists on any board, even if the REAL reason were improving schools. A look at Ayers' past and radical history makes me question that motive. If you guys think he used to blow up Americans and now he has changed and wants to help American children, I question such wide spread triple digits. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

In my opinion, we should. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Truth is - McCain has always been a very popular conservative and there are vast numbers who won't look further than that. Many of us who do look at his (negative) history find not a reformer but at best a typical politician and at worst a typical DC politician with ties to radical right wing organizations and radical right wing extremists And besides, do you really consider McCain to be a radical right winger, or were you simply attemting an exact parody? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Touche Bill, but the discussion should include entire thoughts and quotes, in context, and not Moorishly edited sound byte propaganda. Agree? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.