TankBuster

Chances are if we get invaded, so will GB, so you might think about arming/training yourself and standing up to the fight. Your country has a proud heritage of doing so. Or, you could go join the French, I suppose. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

the reason for their need to feel it necessary to arm themselves.. ??? YGBSM! Who cares what their reason is? It's their right. I too, wish the world was a better place - full of nice people exchanging warm fuzzies, but unfortunately there's always gonna be some scumbag who thinks his crack habit or sexual desires are worth more than my life or that of my wife and kids. What should I do? Negotiate with them? Ask how they are feeling? No thanks, I'll keep my CCP, my 40, my membership at the range, and a wonderful talent to put three slugs center of mass at 20 yards. You've no idea how extensive Joe's popgun collection is - and if we ever have to use it, I hope you'll be standing behind us rather than in front. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Here's what I like about it: 1) No longer do the Feds need to know how much I make, how I spend, or how I invest. The nation was founded on that right to freedom and privacy. No more IRS, no more complexity, April 15th is just another day. As an American citizen, all the Feds need to know about me is how many people are in my home so they know how big a check to send me to cover the tax on sustenance. They'll never again go poking around in the bank looking at my statements, nor will my bank have to report anything to them about my deposit or withdrawal habits. That's the way free men are supposed to live under the original Constitution. 2) The politicians in Washington will never be able to use federal tax policy to try to influence my behavior. 3) I get to keep my entire paycheck. 4) The death of a loved one is never a taxable event. I can leave my children and my church and charities everything I haven't squandered on beer and skydiving. 5) Paying taxes is my choice. Any time I really want to buckle down and save a lot of jack for a rainy day, I can theoretically pay no tax at all. It's my choice. And - none of my investment decisions involve tax consequences. I'll never have to sell another stock to show a loss on Dec 31. 6) Illegal immigration becomes less of a problem. All of the illegals will now pay taxes. And if you're not legal, you don't get a prebate. Oh, and all the drug dealers will now pay taxes. 7) A tax increase is now very apparent to everyone. They can't hide it in the tax code. It will be political folly to raise taxes unless there is a very good reason. Remember - this plan was designed by a group of independent economists to replace income tax, and payroll tax (SS and Medicare) to be revenue neutral. They've taken into account the current rate of savings and consumption, and I'm sure a million other factors that only a geeky economist knows. What they didn't factor in was the effect of about 12 trillion in capital that has moved offshore due to the heavy burden we have placed on labor and income in this country. When that comes back there will be people who have to hide under their bed to avoid getting a good job, and our economy will be smokin'. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Actually, according to the bill, everything is taxed. Medical costs, food, yachts. You want to keep it simple and not allow the lobbyists to exclude anything. But - the bill would set a standard level of poverty "expenditures" for each household base on the number of people in that household. And you will get a prebate (a rebate at the beginning of the month) of the tax required on that level of spending. So, no tax has to be paid on "essentials." The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

lmao Wow. I guess I've lost the game BIGTIME. But a lot of my posts were cut and paste plagiarism. Does that help my score? To wit, I have enjoyed this bit of banter, I must now be off to expand the ranks of the bourgeois society. This computer is sucking the life out of me. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Most of us agree that we need to lower spending. The short term solution if we don't - raise taxes on those filthy rich people. The long(er) term solution is to lower them and stop dis-incentivising investment. The economy grows, jobs are created, and revenue grows. The best solution is repeal the 16th amendment, and pass HR 25, and reduce the budget. Going back to the original post in this thread, the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 cut all of the tax rates. And your calculations on taxes for the various income levels seem accurate - everyone benefits unless you happen to get hit with the AMT. But because higher income earners make more, they get to keep more. HMMM. Hence Bush's "tax breaks for the rich." Here's some mo data fo ya from the Congressional Budget Office: The top 1% of income earners pay 36% of collected tax. The top 10% pay a little over 70% The top 20% pay 84% The top 40% of income earners pay a whopping 97% of the money it takes to fill the government coffers. Is that not progressive enough for you? Peace out, comrades! The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Maybe I'm not understanding your question. THe only thing I get 100% write offs on are expenses. If I'm actully making money, I'll have to pay tax on it, corporate income tax if I leave it in the corporation, and income tax if I pull it out to buy shoes for the baby. My decision to invest that money (or work more, etc) has everything to do with the return I'll get, now or later. The progressive income tax and corporate tax significantly reduces that for me, so at some point it's just not worth my time or my capital. If you lower either tax, I can take more of my own money and make it work to create a larger income stream. That investment, on the larger scale, grows the economy. But again, lower income tax is not my long term goal. Look into the FairTax. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

You're right, to a degree. THe point is, I shouldn't have to make decisions on how I invest based on the tax code. It is an over simplified example, but if a business generates 20k in income and it isn't paid out as salary (to the working owner) then its taxed at the corporate rate. (If I'm paying the entire 20k to employees then it's not a revenue stream, it is an expense, and I'm not making any money - not making a profit) Assuming it is a revenue stream, I can roll it back in as an investment after I pay corporate tax. They're gonna get you one way or the other. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

So....I was making the point that a highly progressive income tax is punitive and not conducive to growing the economy and you countered by making the point that I have an entitlement attitude and that I'm probalbly a tax cheat? Methinks you weren't the captain of your high school debate team. Tell you what, why don't I do it this way. Under the current tax code, (which, if I haven't made it clear should be replaced by the FairTax) what I'll do is go ahead and hire those folks, but roll the money back into my business rather than take it out as income. In a several years, if I work hard enough to cultivate my little seedling it could easily be generating an revenue stream of 50k per year. I can sell that piece of my business for 250k, pay capital gains of only 15% on the 150k. I've beaten the Marxist tax code, I haven't cheated, and you're still paying for most of my "entitlement" programs. By the way in an earlier post you mentioned the US Constitution. If you actually read it, it prohibits a direct tax on the citizens. It took the 16th amendment to force the income tax on us. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Let's illustrate this. Lets say I'm a business owner with 100k to put back into my business for a new product line and I think I can get about 20k in extra revenue per year. I might have to hire two or three people to do so, so that's good for a few locals. Not a bad investment. But when I try to take the 20k out as income, it gets taxed at say, 35% by the Feds, and here in Alabama 5% by the state, so now I'm down to 12k for my effort and my money. I have to work very hard to make that line take off, and I have to risk my capital. That's not punishment? It may not be intentional, but it's certainly the relult. And it doesn't just punish me, those two or three people are still out hunting a job. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Well I'm glad you did at least Google it. It was apparent that when you made your "voodoo economics" claim that you didn't know anything about it. I hope you can aproach it more with an open mind. It seems that you are an angry Bush hater, and getting into those arguments is not my bag. I would rather stay positive and try to find solutions. Billvon, I appreciate your points. I'll just have to disagree with you. Consumer spending impacts the economy now, but investment spending has long term effects. For those who want solutions, the FairTax is worth a look. Not perfect, but I believe much better than the tax code as it stands. Peace out! The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

AH! Thank you rock! You rock! 1) It's a zero sum game only if you assume no economic growth as a result of the switch. With the penalty for working harder and producing more removed, Americans are free to keep every dollar they earn, and a new era of economic growth and job creation is unleashed. Hidden taxes are history, Americans are able to save more, and businesses invest more. Capital formation, the real source of job creation and innovation, is facilitated. Gross domestic product (GDP) increases by an estimated 10.5 percent in the first year alone. The FairTax as proposed raises the economy’s capital stock by 42 percent, its labor supply by 4 percent, its output by 12 percent, and its real wage rate by 8 percent. As U.S. companies and individuals repatriate, on a tax-free basis, income generated overseas, huge amounts of new capital flood into the United States. With such a huge capital supply, real interest rates remain low. Additionally, other international investors will seek to invest here to avoid taxes on income in their own countries, thereby further spurring the growth of our own economy. Some will do better than others, thats capitalism, but a rising tide lifts all ships. Oh, and another thing, we spend about 250 billion annually ($900 for every man, woman and child) to comply with the current tax code. That money is wasted - there's no productivity in it. Once the IRS is abolished, everyone benefits from that. 2) That's a very good question, best answered by reading some of the research papers, but here's the summary: because every corporation has to pay income and payroll taxes at every level of production, everything you buy already has embedded tax cost. The economists have figured that to be 22%. It is replaced by the sales tax of 23%, but you get to keep all your paycheck. All of it. So, the taxes are already there, and consumers are still consuming. Hope that helps. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Who said WB was an idiot? He makes money off of capitalism, not socialism. He's a very smart man, and he creates wealth for a lot of people by investing and creating jobs. The economy runs in cycles, and the more the feds meddle with it, the worse it gets. This particular downturn has many causes, among them are loose loan policies by many financial institutions and overbuilding which created a large housing inventory. Here again, I abhor the income tax altogether. Have I mentioned the FairTax? You said it was voodoo economics - I assume you HAVE read the bill and have some specific objections? The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Warren Buffet! WTF does HE know about making money? Wow. So you guys just hit the nail right on the head. The "rich" will spend some of it, and invest the rest back into the economy. That creates jobs, more income for the "poor" and more revenue, and so on. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Please explain why you think so. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

"Well, there you go again." You have to look a little deeper than who was president during growning deficits. Democrats controlled the House for Reagan's entire stay in the White House, and they outspent the budget he sent them for 7 of 8 years. They controlled the House and the Senate for Bush 41's four years. Economic conditions, which influence revenue, varied quite a bit too. Again, both parties are addicted to spending, and it will all have to end sometime. We either bite the bullet now or let our kids and grandkids do it. My fear is that one day we will no longer be the premier military superpower, because of a devastated economy. The Chinese won't come marching in with pitchforks - they are growing in military might. This is an interesting thread. I usually work too much to spend time on the forums, but I've been a little under the weather lately..... The interesting part is the vitriol with which some make their arguments, the hatred of the party leaders, the ad hominem attacks. Eye opening. Back to point, and then I have to get back to work. I'm feeling better. First off - Spending reform is the order of the day. Tax reduction across the board will boost the economy. "Tax breaks for the rich" is rhetoric used by some politicians seeking the vote of those who envy wealth. Read about the FairTax bill. We only need a little more support to bring it to a vote in the House. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Actually, it's not a myth. Lower taxes result in higher revenue, because of the positive effects on the economy. Revenue has been at an all time high, but unfortunately, so has spending. Yes, the war is expensive, but so are 2 million rubbers a day shipped to Africa, and thousands of other stupid vote buying schemes. But, we're missing the point. THe FairTax is actually being sponsored by both Dems and Republicans. It's a way to create revenue without penalizing hard work/smart work/entrepreneurial talent. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

The Fairtax IS good, better than the current system. It was drafted with the help of several independent economists, to be revenue neutral. It won't curb spending EXCEPT to the degree that nothing can be hidden in the tax code, and if increased taxes are easily seen, then it will be polotical folly to raise them. Also, the reason a lot of investment capital has left the US is because there is such a heavy tax on labor and income. If that is removed, the economy will definitely heat up. There are several representatives behind the bill, and it gained quite a bit of publicity because of Mike Huckabee's support. There is hope, and change I can believe in! The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Unfortunately, with the 2 party system, I have to pick the lesser of the two evils. My views are more Libertarian, but - are you trying to say that the Dems are more supportive of personal liberty and personal responsibility? Yikes. Getting back to the main point, at least the Republicans do more to stay out of my pocket, for the time being. Until we can field some independent candidates who want to do ONLY what the constitution allows, I'll still vote Repulican Two quotes from Ben Franklin. "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." "Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner." . The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

Billvon you are right on. I am a limited government, unlimited personal liberty guy. I vote Republican, but when it comes to spending, there's not much difference between them and the Dems. And in about the year 2040, all of the revenue taken from us (at gunpoint) will only service the debt. No bullets, no judicial system, no congressional paychecks, not to mention no handouts or social security. I'm really worried about our country. But - if you guys are interested in a solution to our screwwwwwed up tax code, go to www.fairtax.org and read about that. It doesn't reduce spending, but it makes the collection much more transparent, and has features that boost economic growth. And economic growth is the only way we can increase tax revenue to avoid the upcoming catastrophe. I hope we wise up soon. I have grandkids. The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.