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So if their policy was fucking you in the ass before you leave you would be OK with that? Hey, it's their policy!! Be gentle, please, Mr. Walton! And don't tell me where to shop. I can shop WHEREVER I WANT and expect not to have my right violated. If you want to be a sheep. go ahead and "BAAAAA-A-A-A" if you want. I won't be searched by some part time greeter to prove that I am not a crook. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Once paid for, it is MY FUCKING PROPERTY. And they have no right to search my property. If they want to, check me out before I pay. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

and IMO, The "victim" is the one who will look foolish for not just showing the receipt at the time they were asked for it and instead waste time and money of the court. Brilliant approach. That'll show 'em. j If WalMart or other stores want to waste the money, that's OK by me. I'd rather keep my rights and spend a little more for my goods and keep my rights, even if they are covered in lead based paint and tainted with bacteria. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Actually, you have absolutely no right to shop there. You are there by implied invitation, one that can be revoked at any time. Just like the next guy. (like I said) -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

So in order for a store to protect themselves and not violate your rights, then I guess the best policy for the store to have would be hold everyone on probable cause and get it all worked out later. Just have a store employee say "I saw them pick this up but it wasn't in their shopping cart when they checked out." Its their word against yours. Now you can go to court and sue and all that other bs and waste more time and money, OR just show them your receipt. Being defiant towards a police officer is probable cause. j They need to have evidence that you stole. Either an eye witness, or video evidence, or some other proof that would stand up to a jury. That's the way it works in America, in case you didn't know. We have a 'presumption of innocence' whereby a prosecutor must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt through a preponderance of the evidence to the satisfaction of a jury of your peers. At the same time, you have a right to unreasonable search, and certain expectations of privacy and personal property rights. They can go ahead and call the cops and take you to trial, but when you bring your receipt as exhibit "A" they are going to look awful foolish. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

That's the problem with most bar-room lawyers and wannabe-johnny-cochrane constitution thumpers. They like to challenge even reasonable restrictions which benefit us all. Any attempt to try to curtail behaviour that hurts us all is fear mongered as the first step on a slippery slope to neo-fascism. If people are so upset by this stores policy then shop elsewhere. I like enforced rules because all too frequently people gain advantage over me by breaking rules that I abide by. Rules (and enforcement of those rules) are designed to try to create fairness. I frequently question the motives of those who challenge rules designed to create fairness. I frequently question the motives of those who roll over, spread their cheeks and lift their sack at every request without a second thought. If you want to do that, go ahead, but I cherish my rights and will protect them, no matter how small, and no matter as to the convenience of looking the other way. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I am sick and fucking tired of hearing that. I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there, and I have no obligation to sacrifice my rights by doing so. The store has the legal and ethical obligation to operate without violating my rights. If they don't like it, too bad. When there are a million people a day going in and out of the doors, they don't get to choose who to serve. The ONLY way that store, or any store, can violate your rights is if you let them. You let them by going there. They are a private business that has every right to set policy. Don't like their policy, don't go. I realize you don't like that, but what about it don't you understand? They can set all the policy they want, but they still cannot violate my rights. What part of that don't YOU understand? I will continue to shop where I want, and stand up for my rights whenever I happen to feel violated. That's how I roll. Accept it and move on, as this isn't really a 'change my mind on the issue' type thing. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Das ist sehr gut, meine freunde! The "nothing to hide" argument has cost people more rights than any other. Phone taps not OK? What are you hiding? Can we searhc your home? No? What are you hiding? I am not a thief, and I don't need to prove that to anyone. If they have evidence to the contrary, they can play their hand, and I wish them luck. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I am sick and fucking tired of hearing that. I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there, and I have no obligation to sacrifice my rights by doing so. The store has the legal and ethical obligation to operate without violating my rights. If they don't like it, too bad. When there are a million people a day going in and out of the doors, they don't get to choose who to serve. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

A clerk from that dept. always escorts these items to the front of the store with you after you pay, so this is not an issue. Also, I think it's telling that you would just hand over YOUR sunglasses. WTF? You are not a thief, but you will let THEM steal your sungalsses?? FUCK THAT!!! What if they were $100 sunglasses? Would you just hand them over too since you have no recept? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Do you think they have 100 people watching each individual camera? j Why? If you went to court your lawyer would subpeona all of the video files for that day. If there were no images of you stealing or eye witnesses of you stealing, it seems the case would be extremely weak. I don't know if anyone watches the cameras or not. I'd bet a year's pay that they record them though. Just because you wear a blue vest does not give you the right to search me. Just because I am in there store does not give them the right to search me. Maybe they could require a search to enter the store, but they don't do that because many customres would tell them to get bent. And if a woman has stolen goods in her purse, what does showing a receipt prove? It won't be on the receipt, or in the bag, so they will assume that it was a false trigger, and off she goes with stolen property. It's just not a good or fair system. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Why? What would you do, create a scene in the store? The stores have those "beeper things" in place to prevent shoplifting. Being manmade they are prone to failure and occasionally the "beeper thing" goes off when a legit customer exits the store. If you don't want that to happen to you then it is simple - don't shop there. Not shopping there is a right you can freely express. However, if you DO choose to shop there, then you assume certain risks of "beeeper things" going off on you. But if it does fear not. It is virtually painless and the sterility only lasts for 5-10 years. The malfunctioning beeper thing creates the scene, not me. I am usually walking fast to get the hell out of there, so probably will be gone before the old lady manages to question me. Normally there are lots of smelly, disgusting people near the WalMart entrance, so I am not apt to dally. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

A search of your person is a constitutional issue, IMO. Once you pay, those items are your posessions, and any search is a violation of your rights. Here is an example of why this is a bad idea. Should I have to show a receipt for the sunglasses I wore into the store if it is a brand/model they sell? But Mr. Cleark, I bought these a week ago, I have no receipt! Well, I guess you stole them then? Sorry no. Unless you see me stealing, fuck off. I'm not a lawer but I am smart enough to know that they don't HAVE to see you stealing or catch it on camera to get a conviction. "This surge protector? The one in my bag, with your store label? The one I have no receipt for while walking from the register to the door? Yeah, it's mine. I brought it in with me." Sure you did. Hell, maybe you really did! But I doubt any cop or judge is going to buy your claim. Sunglasses? I've been asked about mine several times, each time at the store i bought them and by a different cashier. I just tell them I bought them several weeks ago and they are happy with that. It's amazing what a civil response to a question can do to keep a situation from escalating vs a smartass reply. Luckily, in America, it's up to a jury, not a cop or judge. Odds are, a jury will wonder why the cameras (there are about 100 or more in your average WalMart) did not see you steal a thing, nor have you ever stole anything or committed any crime in your entire life. And by the way, when they call the cops about your sunglasses, for which you have no receipt, your opinion on the issue will likely change. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

He was recently sued. He put some celeb's dog on a treadmill and it croaked. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Unbelievable. I saw Van Hagar on the 5150 tour and I liked it quite a bit. Then a few years back a friend dragged me to the Gary Sherone VH and it was the WORST. Eddie's solo just seemed like self-indulgent tripe with no substance. It was just old, and I no longer thought of him as a guitar god. I had moved on to playing SRV and others. Considering my nickname in High School was "Eddie Van" it's not easy for me to say, but tany upcoming VH music will likely be garbage. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone. Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction. Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly! A receipt or lack thereof does not prove theft. I always pay with a debit card, so I'll gladly go to court and show the jury my bank statement showing I paid. Then I will file a huge lawsuit for wrongful prosecution, etc, etc. The law is that I can't steal. The law does not state "Thou shall show receipt to minimum wage moron on demand or face immediate jail time." I'd also guess that unless the store had video of you stealing, the cops would let you go. Where's Kennedy - I'm sure he has an opinion on this. And I may actually value it this time. If you were attempting to leave the store w/bag of mechandise and no receipt, they would have a lot more on you than just no receipt. Other than that i agree with each and every point of your reply. You most certainly can refuse to show a receipt, go to court, sue them, etc. Or you can make everybody's life much simpler and just show them the freakin' receipt. It's actually pretty easy. See that little piece of paper they give you at the checkout? Put it in the bag or keep it in your hand. If they ask to see your receipt just wave that little piece of paper. I know, I know....it's a lot of work and extremely strenuous. But it does make everyone's day much less stressful. After all, the store's right to prevent theft is greater (on store property) than your right to not have to show them the receipt they just gave you. Once you are off their property, THEN you can tell them to go get fucked. Yes, it seems so simple doesn't it? Yes, they have the right to demand a receipt, and I have the right to tell them to piss off. Want to have me arrested, go for it. I'll see you in court, and I'll win, because I am not a thief. Lucky for them that beeper thing hasn't gone off on me yet. Or if it has I didn't notice because I have more important shit to do than stand around proving that I am not a crook. The best thing they can do is use all of those expensive cameras they have installed, and catch the real crooks. They can be VERY effective - that's why nobody gets away with cheating in Vegas. (well, almost nobody) Wouldn't you know it, I have to go out and buy dog food after work. Well, I doubt they have those tags on their Purina products. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

A search of your person is a constitutional issue, IMO. Once you pay, those items are your posessions, and any search is a violation of your rights. Here is an example of why this is a bad idea. Should I have to show a receipt for the sunglasses I wore into the store if it is a brand/model they sell? But Mr. Cleark, I bought these a week ago, I have no receipt! Well, I guess you stole them then? Sorry no. Unless you see me stealing, fuck off. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone. Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction. Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly! A receipt or lack thereof does not prove theft. I always pay with a debit card, so I'll gladly go to court and show the jury my bank statement showing I paid. Then I will file a huge lawsuit for wrongful prosecution, etc, etc. The law is that I can't steal. The law does not state "Thou shall show receipt to minimum wage moron on demand or face immediate jail time." I'd also guess that unless the store had video of you stealing, the cops would let you go. Where's Kennedy - I'm sure he has an opinion on this. And I may actually value it this time. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

It was the store that made the cops job more difficult when they called in the law with no evidence of a crime. It would be interesting to see how many people are caught with these systems. I'd bet the number is amazingly low. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

Oh sure, they can go ahead and ask all they want. Fuck, I can ask them to show me a copy of the Magna Carta on my way out the door, if I want. I doubt they are going to produce a copy though. And what good is a receipt anyway? Buy a few CD's and then re-enter the store and steal the same ones to sell on eBay - Here's my receipt, no problema! Maybe they should strip search eveyone on the way out. I would be OK with that as long as they had some hot cheerleader type and she was mandated to search my underpants, repeatedly. Otherwise, piss off. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I agree. I paid for the shit in my bag, so they have no right WHATSOEVER to go through my belongings. They have cameras ALL OVER the ceiling in these stores. If you have evidence that I am a thief, ARREST ME, but don't hassle hundreds of good customers daily because of your garbage theft prevention system. Do you think for one minute that real crooks don't know how to beat these systems? All these things do is unlawfully detain and embarass good people when the alarm sounds and the elderly Wal Mart employee asks to search you. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

And if the "child" initiates that discussion? It's still a crime. What part is confusing you? NO MATTER WHAT, when it involves a child, soliciting sex or sending porno is a FELONY. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

One of the great things about gun ownership is that once you own a gun, it's difficult for someone to take from you. Like millions of Americans, if guns were outlawed, I would become an outlaw. We could stop all gun production, importing, selling, reselling, and ammo manufacturing, and we would still have functioning guns in citizen's hands in the USA in 100 years, if not longer. BTW- for the most part the Democrats have moved on on the gun issue as a national debate. They'd rather not lose the votes on an issue that is already decided. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

You are wrong. A crime occurs when you send porno to a child. A crime occurs when you talk about the sexual things you would do to that child. If the person never sent pornographic images and never expressed any interest in sex, then you might have point. Unfortunately, every single one of the TCAP perps DID send porn and DID talk about sex. A few of the guys did seem to be functionally retarded to some extent, which made me wonder about their ability to understand what they were doing. Compelling TV .... isn't it?! -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.