steveorino
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Everything posted by steveorino
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I never said all universities or the first Universtities were from christianity, but without Chritianity, you would not have Oxford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. You wouldn't have al the Catholic Hospitals. In Tulsa the Three largest hopitals are catholic as with many cities, (St. Jude, etc. The first schools in America were typically church school houses. The first orphanges in America were catholic. The great renaissance painters were mostly employed by the Catholic church. the list goes on. steveOrino
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I'm not saying we wouldn't have ANY, but answer this. Who began the earliest hospitals, orphanges and universities? Who patronized the great works of art in the renaissance? steveOrino
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I knew that.
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Nope, you're the first person to ever say that. Sorry, JC beat ya to it about 2000 years ago Matt 7:12 Yep, no hospitals, orphanages, great works of art, schools of higher learning. Yep, a whole lot better place. Thanks for the valuable input to the debate! steveOrino
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How is that? I know JC taught in parables -- I'm not sure you understand that. My suggestion is you can't tell the difference between a direct command from Christ and a lesson he istrying to teach in a story. the LESSON is the key; the elements in the story is not a command. The common interpretation of that parable is the "killing" of the enemies is a reference to God's final judgement, not a command to kill enemies. steveOrino
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Geesh! Another person who cannot tell the difference between a parable and a command ... steveOrino
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Does Jesus prescribe killing? steveOrino
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"Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo”) (Matthew 22:21). See also Luke 3:12-13 Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar; unto God what is God's steveOrino
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I see taxation and stealing as apples and oranges. Sorry, you can't see that. I answered your point #2 here and a PM. It is not my fault you don't get it. Only so many ways I can say it. EDITED TO ADD: I never said ALL morality is objective, did I? I BELIEVE I said some morals are objective. steveOrino
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As far as taxation. I get something for the taxes (schools, roads, law enforcement, etc.) So it would not fall into the category of stealing per say, Although SOME taxes are close to stealing. :) steveOrino
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Yes I don't see the Bible as a History book. It has personal and cultural loyalties written it. I see it as an instrument to point us to Christ. steveOrino
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wrong This world is hopelessly lost without a savior. We can justify killing it just about any name ... justice, war, choice, etc. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:21-25 steveOrino
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OR you can believe the Bible as History tells us how the Jews saw thier past. steveOrino
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I agree we can all have opinions about what is subjective. If I steal from you and you say it is wrong ... why? Your subjective morality may think so, but that would only be your opinion. It would not be "absolutely" wrong according to your theory. steveOrino
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Objective morals would be objective because they come God, not humans. I never said Christianity "leads the way" What are you debating? I think there are objective morals. That is all I have said. Perhaps, you like Bill think not. That is okay with me, but if you believe that that you will be on a slippery slope IMHO, because how can you say anything is wrong? steveOrino
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That is correct, as do Muslims, Jews, etc. I have my opinion. steveOrino
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You guys think because "Christians", or anyone else for that matter, treat absolute truths as subjective truths, that somehow that makes it not an absolute truth. I simply disagree with you. What Hitler did was "absolutely" wrong, not relatively wrong. BTW, I never said Christianity leads to objective morality. I simply stated I believe there is an objective morality. BIG difference! steveOrino
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come on, answer the question ...
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I agree with you that some morals are subjective and some morals are objective (absolute) steveOrino
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But that is what we theologians do ... Than according to your theory, Hitler was as moral as Mother Teresa. Of course, all may not agree, as you believe morals are artificial, therefore, they are simply created by societies or individuals. So you cannot say Hitler was "absolutely" morally wrong to exterminate 6 million Jews. We may feel that way, but perhaps if we "evolve" long enough we won't consider his actions "absolutely" morally wrong. steveOrino
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With morals that are "relative" there are no absolutes. Think subjective VS objective. With subjective or relative morals you can define your neighbors as "one of you" therefore it is easy to "love him" Jesus defined morals more objectively with absolutes. The moral of the God Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) is EVERYONE is our neighbor (among many other morals taught from this parable.) steveOrino
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Nah, if it is evolved morals, they are subjective. This is why I like Christianity (as it is taught by JC). We may all agree that we should “love our neighbor” but it is fairly easy to redefine our neighbor with moral relativity. He’s white, he lives in Tulsa, USA, he is Christian, he’s my same denomination, etc. Jesus and his parable about the Good Samaritan, define the neighbor from a moral absolute steveOrino
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At least we won't all be going to hell... That would be one good thing! steveOrino
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Then I guess there are no absolutes in morality? steveOrino
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Perhaps because morals and theism came first and religions are attempts to make the idea of following morals more popular and formal by linking the two? I'd go even further to say the idea of morals and the idea that there is a "right" and "wrong" have been artificially formalized by man as well. . But why would everyone have some universal morals when they don't have universal religions? steveOrino