ROK

Bill, This seems to be an answer to the issue, but what are the logistics of this taking place? How far apart do the landing areas need to be taking into account differing jump runs, and constantly changing wind conditions? Economically, will it be appealing to DZO's? What about the DZ's that do not have the real estate for proper LZ separation? I have not followed every post written with regard to the debate, but it would seem that if this is the only option, the swoopers will come out on the short end of the stick. I still believe that we have enough intelligence in the community to come up with a plan that involves timing and proper separation. We do it with flat flyers, free flyers, and wing-suit flyers now. Taking the mechanics behind swooping into consideration, can we not do the same for them?

As a rule swoopers want to open higher than old, conservative belly flyers. Thats the real problem. Most people do not have unlimited skydiving budgets. Those who like swooping want to do their freeflying or their RW and then swoop their landing. All very good points... While taking Brian's canopy course he said that once you start swooping, you live for it. He stated it much more eloquently. I plan to be a swooper in the future when my experience allows. I stand next to the pond and dream of creating that rooster tail while flying by. I would rather see compromise than hard line edicts that forbid the discipline totally. For this to be possible, both sides will need to walk away feeling like they can live with the "plan". For this to happen, both sides will need to give a little.

I'll jump anywhere that has a plane and a plan. If the DZ doesn't participate in a discipline that I desire to pursue on that day, I'll go to one that does. I'm very new and learning daily, but tell me why this issue can't be solved easily. A simple answer would be to make a H&P run for those who wish to swoop. If this can't be done for economic or other reasons, do the following... If you want to go to altitude, get out first. The next group should wait a safe amount of time to insure wide separation. It seems that most swoopers I know fly high wing loadings with small canopies. Hit the LZ way ahead of the others in the plane. Don't open above a pre-declared altitude (emergencies being the exception) If you want to participate in disciplines with mixed groups while in freefall, don't swoop. Stick to a simple pattern. If we can come up with a plan, and police each other in sticking to the plan, extremes shouldn't be necessary. Now, tell me what I have missed?

I've also slung mine over my shoulder many times while traveling. I tried the bag thing and it's much easier to let your shoulder support the weight. I've never had any problems at all. I did have a supervisor walk over to me after getting through security at Tampa and tell me I came through the wrong line and point me back to a line that was about 14 miles long. My jaw hit the floor and he laughed and said (gotcha)! People do not know what it is, and that's just fine with me. As far as putting the leg straps on....Why in the hell would someone do that?

What kind of a bike did you buy? I frequently carry my rig on my Roadking. I use an old OD green military laundry bag and strap it to my rear seat with a bungee net that I purchased from wally world. I carry a black garbage bag too in case it rains. Wearing the rig while riding made me feel off balance. The legstraps were an issue too. As far as using devices to secure your hackey, or stop your main from deploying...they work really good at the wrong time.

I've had a few dogs in my life and they were all good. Just show them love and discipline (sorta like you have to do with your significant other) Here's my Rhodesians, and they are excellent companions. Very smart, and enough energy to keep you hopping!

You think you can find a suit that's better than the Phantom? I have no idea (yet). The Phantom was a demo. I have much to read and learn, and a lot of people to talk to before I buy anything. When I do buy a suit, I'll post a pic...

So what did you order? Kris. Nothing YET! I need to learn more before ordering, but I did tell her to set a $1000 aside for my birthday...

I had the pleasure of doing my first wingsuit jump at Z-Hills yesterday. It was awesome! I jumped with Chuck, Ryan, and another guy. Chuck trained me on the ground, and I felt just like I did when I was going through AFF. Apprehensive, and a bit overwhelmed at how much there is to learn from setting the suit up, to actually flying it. (and also how to live through it) I arched too much, and spun it up tight when opening, but It's all good. It's amazing how much muscle memory tries to take over from doing RW jumps. The suit was a Phantom and my canopy is a Sabre 2 150. I want to thank Chuck and Ryan for spending the time introducing me to yet another awesome avenue in this sport. PS-my wife hates you both

Dave, You and I aren't far apart in experience, or wing loading. So I'll give you some advise with that aspect in mind. I, like you have the majority of my jumps on a 190. (assuming you've been flying the 190 for a while) Mine was a Tri, and a damn fine canopy. I moved off of the Tri and flew various 170's for a while. I really didn't see much of a difference between my Tri 190 and the nine cell 170's in decent rate, but the glide and flare were stronger when I switched to the nines. I decided to purchase a new canopy and bought a Sabre 2 150. I had jumped a couple of 150's, taken a canopy course with Brian, and made sure that I could pretty much handle everything on Bill Vons progression chart (under a 170) That being said, there is a HUGE difference in the flight/landing characterisitics between a 190 and a 150. Maybe the expert swoopers will disagree, but it pretty much astounded me. Entering my landing pattern, my descent rate is much faster, when making any turn that moves me out from underneath my canopy I lose a lot more altitude, and when on final it seems that everything happening, and every decision being made has to occur about twice as fast as before. The flare point becomes more of a feeling and built in response than, "ok, I'm at the right altitude now". Even in the flare I have to fly my canopy all the way through to the end, as opposed to the flare...flare...flare instruction from the past. Saturday I was coming back from a long spot after an awesome tracking dive with someone. I was the last canopy in the air and entered the LZ with less altitude than I normally set-up for. I was in my turn on final and noticed that I was a bit lower than usual. I aborted my turn early and landed at about a 45 degree angle from where I originally intended. If I would have proceeded with my turn, I would have "landed" with my canopy to the left of my body. Not good. I considered it a painless lesson, this time. (Thank you Brian for the lesson behind canopy mechanics) Throw in the usual twenty canopies landing around me and my options decrease dramatically. In hind-site, I should have stayed with the 170 for a while. Without a canopy course, where I paid attention and practiced what I learned, I might be drinking out of a straw right now too. There's a psychology behind low jump number down-sizing that I don't see a lot of people admit to. Smaller pack volume Container not as bulky looking What will a couple of sizes less hurt My peers will think I'm cooler Others with my experience have done it It can't be that much different I tried it and landed it perfectly, so what's the big- deal. I'm spending a lot of money so I should get- something I can stick with. Someone told me I'm a good pilot so I should be safe. I learn every day that there are small situations and factors that change my flight plan that I didn't and couldn't anticipate before-hand. After flying this 150 I learned that it is now an extension of my body, and I'm no longer a passenger under a piece of material. Every action or move I make effects my flight. Even the way I shift my weight in the harness. The forgiveness factor is exponentially less than it was before. Throw in the fact that you're also responsible for the live's of those flying around you and it can be daunting. My advise to anyone is listen to what the people who have been around for a long time have to say. The words aren't a mantra repeated because it's PC and the responsible thing to do. The words are repeated because THEY KNOW. They know that until we new "guys" have been around long enough to experience several of the X factors that this sport will throw at you, we are a liability to ourselves and others. By the way, this wasn't pointed directly at you. Your question just brought it to mind. Peace

Nah... Some preppy with a waverunner probably. The true test> We're there a set of balls hanging from the hitch mount?

This entire argument is academic. If you look at the definition of what a license is, Kallend is correct. It's been said by several that the only thing a D license gets you is the opportunity to obtain several instructor endorsements. In my opinion, If someone wishes to be an instructor, they need night jump training. If you don't plan to be an instructor, why get your D? Why should I have had to take water training? What if I can't swim? I may not ever plan to jump around water? However, I did go up on a sunset load one time, flew around waiting for some clouds, and it was DARK as hell when I landed... I do believe that a canopy control "camp" should be mandatory, and you should have to get an endorsement before exceeding a certain wing loading, or downsizing below a certain canopy size. I'm with Doug. If it becomes a requirement to stand on my hands naked on top of the hanger until pigeons roost on my ass to get my D, I'll do it...I'm goal driven

A while back, I searched looking for this information. I didn't find much of anything useful. I did make a half ass comparison between my Tri 190, and my Sabre2 150 by jumping them consecutively the same day. The spot was not exact from jump to jump, but it was within reason, and I pitched at about the same altitude. The altitude when I flew over the parking lot next to the LZ was about the same. I just made it there a lot faster under the 150... When you sit down and write all of the X factors that influence flight, it becomes pretty complicated. You can come close by calculating your horizontal progress compared to your vertical descent under your own canopy.

I'll share what night jumps taught me... Part of my attraction to skydiving is in the details. If you sit back and think about it, there are so many important details that you NEED to remember and practice, so you and your friends can remain alive. Some become complacent about details when an act is repeated over and over again. It's just plain human nature. My first night jump was spectacular. I was hooked. My second was awesome, until I came in to land. I hadn't removed my goggles. Fifty feet agl on my final, my goggles fogged up 100%. Good ole Florida humidity. I was blind as hell, crashed and burned having flared nicely AFTER I face planted. I had overlooked the one small detail. A very nice reminder that has kept me on track and in the now. Night jumps taught me to never be complacent in this sport. I watch people and it seems that many are. How many of you do not do a gear check before every jump? Be honest with yourself. In the words of TK, "get you a big ole student canopy and go jump!" PS- My third night jump was a five-way. Looking at the grinning faces of the others in the darkness was an awesome experience...

When the winds pick up, the staff keeps a regular update written on the board to show everyone the time, and the wind strength (ground winds). I go by the windsock and "feel", and also watch what's happening with the other canopies as they're coming down. When it hits 18-20, I stop regardless if it's gusting, or steady. An exception would be if the gusts are very infrequent. What amazes me is how many people don't pay attention to the winds aloft...

Viso's are crap. I disagree... The Viso and Optima do exactly what they are supposed to do, and they do it well. I frequently watch the change in altitude on the ride up and they sync almost exactly. My Viso has taken a beating pulling in static lines and bags on several occassions and it hasn't missed a beat. L&B customer service has been prompt, and friendly when I ask questions. They even sent me a new mounting system to demo. Some people get frustrated until they figure out the entry sequence to access L&B product (including me). After you get it down they are functional and easy to navigate. So, what experience have you had to draw the conclusion that the Viso is "crap"?

No tandems... Did my first jump from altitude with TK and Bob Clark. It was awesome! I watch the tandems now and I'm not real sure if I would do it or not. The thought of exiting without a rig gives me the chills

Hey, Anday is not gay! Walt I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal about Andy being gay, after all, it is the year 2007. Give the guy a break!

Try here: http://std-gov.org/stds/treatment.htm Man....the H's are a bitch! Stuff in there that fire won't clear up.

I have the day off, and I still showed at 5am... I'm beginning to think I have issues

You need to read the crash repots for the 92 hinkely crash and see how "keeping it all in the family" helped a bunch to an early grave. I will read it. If you're going to quote me, quote everything I wrote. "and if they give you an attitude and don't listen, proceed with correcting the problem for them." There's a good reason for most laws and regulations. There's also a way to correct issues that don't involve going to the top and inviting government in your front door. At times bringing something to someones attention will correct the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anywhere in my post where I said that inaction is the best course.

If you sit the alti in front of you on the table, the 6 would be closest to your chest and the 12 farthest away. When I look down it just seemed that having it reversed with the 6 being the farthest point away from your chest, it was easier to see a wider range of numbers...

I read somewhere that if people mispronounce, or mispell an easy name, they subconsciously think you're gay

Welcome Jon! Where are you jumping at? I'm heading to Calverton in July to check out how the island people do it.

Just got one Saturday and haven't had a chance to jump it yet. I spent a few hours yesterday sewing on velcro and strapping to mount it properly. Looking down at it is a little awkward. Do most people mount them with the top away from the chest, or upside down? It may be a dumb question, but upside down seems to give me an easier picture.