kmcguffee

I don't know enough about it, but I don't think there are any medical benefits to doing it. There are medical benefits to male circumcision (ie lower chance of urinary tract infection being one).

I don't think that male circumcision compares with child torture in this argument. Circumcision has some medical proponents even though the consensus is that it is not absolutely required. Whereas torture is inflicting pain upon an individual for the primary purpose of causing pain and usually some type of secondary purpose like gaining information, entertainment, etc.

[whisper]Why are we whispering?[/whisper]

Whoa! You need to knock that down about 5 notches and 'say again'.

I didn't realize we were talking in such extremes. Are you sure you don't write the arguments for the NRA? I didn't know our government 'systematically kills innocent people'. What is worse than innocent people dying IMO? 1. Living the rest of our lives in an oppressive society. 2. Living the rest of our lives fearful of when the next terrorist attack is going to kill me, my family, or my friends. 3. My children dying in a terrorist attack because I valued my life so much I refused to fight for them. Just to name a few.

Uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh, yep. That would be correct. [whisper] It was a joke.[/whisper]

SkyDekker, I agree with what you are saying for the most part. One big difference between the Muslim extremists killing civilians and the coalition forces killing civilians is that we are not targeting them. The Muslim extremists are trying to kill civilians. Our forces do not do that. We take extreme pains to not endanger civilians, even to the point of increasing the risk to our own military forces. I know this for a fact. I spent 9 years as an Army Infantry Officer and I received numerous constraints during missions that increased the danger to my soldiers in order to reduce the possiblity of civilian casualties. There is a difference between terrorism and how we conduct operations period. It also places more pressure on our military when the enemy places civilians in the line of fire in order to drum up propoganda cases against the coalition. Yet, we still receive the blame when this happens. It appalls me that the media and a large part of the world cannot see through this. Yet, these two things are a major reason for the prosperity and peace that exist in the world also. Everything can be twisted around and used for personal gain.

LOL...I was thinking the exact same thing.

This was the question that was asked: I gave him one example.

Again, this is referring to an individual to individual level. Anything can be twisted around to fit your purpose. Many people do that with the Bible but it doesn't decrease its true value. They also do it with the nation's laws, patriotism, Islam, etc.

OK. In this particular instance, yes. There is more to the story than this but, you asked. You seem to just be trolling for an argument here.

Excellent Dave. Almost brought a tear to my eye.

Try this:

You were quoting from the Christian Bible so I assume that would be the one you should look up. Any translation would do (King James, NIV, etc).

This refers to an individual not a state. States are authorized by God to carry out justice and defend their interests even if it involves taking the life of another individual. It should never be done lightly. This is interpreted differently by different people though. If you are that interested in it I would suggest you pick up the Bible, read it, and form your own opinion.

You need to see a doctor if the pain persists for more than a couple of days. The area you refer to is the home for some ligaments that I have seen torn in football numerous times. Be careful that you don't injure them further.

Actually, it is 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. It works well for the death penalty for murder. Simply put, don't murder someone else unless you would have them murder you. In this case, the murdered individual can't reciprocate so the state stands in.

Read this: Now read what you said: The difference would be 'adding' vs 'changing'. I didn't accuse you of changing anything. We are not discussing what they can or can't do. We are discussing what makes a patriot. You can't actively fight everything you disagree with but you can become involved to change the things that are most important to you. You can take the extreme view on all of my comments to try and make them seem wrong if you like but you are missing my point. I have no idea where this came from. Do you live in the same country as me? OK, now you have really confused me. If everyone isn't working in the same direction then either (1) they are not all working or (2) they are working in different directions.

You are right. It goes both ways. I should have said 'legal' action.

As long as those actions are lawful I don't see why this doesn't make sense. Explain. No, the reason this country is so great is because we are able to put our differences aside when needed and work together to accomplish a common goal. I didn't say blindly support the government, I said to put action behind your words. The action can be in agreement or disagreement with what the government is doing. Quit adding things that I am not saying. I've never seen a successful organization where everyone was working in a different direction. That is ludicrous. BTW.....the government has its own checks and balances also.

Whatever the definition, It does not include sitting around and criticizing everything that the government does. There is 'action' and 'sacrifice' in patriotism. A great meny people think that being a 'critic' of everything they disagree with is 'patriotism'. QUIT WHINING! Get off of your butt and do something about it! It is way too easy to criticize. I can find fault with ANYTHING that ANYONE does if I look hard enough. The person who counts (the patriot) is the one out working for what they believe in. We have too many sniveling cry babies in this country today. If you are not actively trying to change what you disagree with then support it. That is what being a member of a team is and it applies to being a member of a country too.

If you read the history, this process you look forward to was fueled by war, by people's deaths. Countries, tribes, regions, etc. are not going to 'unite' under one government without some crisis that requires them to do so to ensure their survival. More often than not that 'crisis' is war. Innocent people dying is a tragedy but there are things that are worse. There are things worth dying for. If you don't believe that then I definitely don't want you in my fox hole.

Read a little deeper. They offered a conditional surrender that would have allowed their war machine to stay intact to fight another day (WWIII?). We dropped the second bomb to force them into an unconditional surrender. Compare the deaths from the bombs with the US deaths that would have occurred if we would have invaded Japan. It's nice to have these lofty ideas but they tend to fade when you are the one storming the beach.

He put (BBC) after the figures so I guess that is where they are from. The BBC must be trusting the Taliban's casualty reports. Of course, they aren't known to distort the truth or tell outright lies either. The little problem of producing bodies to prove the casualties didn't even phase them. In one instance we dropped about 3-4 laser guided bombs near a town and they claimed about 600-1000 civilian casualties. Man, that is an impressive casualty count from 3-4 bombs! It didn't matter that they were hiding soldiers and APCs in the town right next to the Mosque. But let's blame America first! We are in a sad state of affairs. Do you think this generation could pull off a war like WWII again? I'm starting to have my doubts.

That old 'American Will' coming out in you? The great weakness of the United States. Responsible for the waste of numerous lives in Korea, Vietnam, and Somalia. Raised on fast food, 90 minute war movies, 10 minute video games and instant gratification. It was over 4 months before we retaliated against the Japanese with the Doolittle Raid after Pearl Harbor. These things take time and a lot of perseverence.