jdhill

Well, what happened to the indians who did nothing? They were driven from their land... you could say the same for the indians who resisted, but they did not put up a unified front, and it could be argued that they did not have the means to resist... but, had the pilgrims, vikings, and spaniards been driven into the sea, North America may look very different today... Fast forward several hundred years... we have the means to stop an onslaught of illegal immigrants, the question is, do we have the will? J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Vibes coming his way.... Hope he pulls through this. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Multiple cards... don't put all your eggs in one basket... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Err99 is a power related error... I've had it on my D60 at some very inopportune moments... mine locked up so bad that the only way to get it to reset was to remove the battery... How are you mounting the camera? If you are using a stroboframe, it may be the problem (if the memory battery is in the same place as on the D60 / 10d)... the stroboframe base on the bottom of the camera was pushing in on the memory battery compartment... I changed the way I mounted mine, and the problem has gone away... I stopped using my stroboframe, and went back to just a thumb screw and a strap... the problem has not come back... I know someone who had a similar issue with a D30 too... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

I heard a report that in one of the incidents, some POS rushed on to a train, dropped their rucksack then ran off the train. At that point some people tried to jump the POS, but he somehow got away... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

That might have something to do with the Navy (AF and USMC too for that matter) having a lower quota... I've seen Navy recruiters stuggling to make mission right along side Army ones... about the only ones that didn't have to work very hard at it are the AF ones. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Except for that whole taking responsibility thing... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

"Supper's Ready" by Genesis is 24 and change... "Dazed and Confused" by Zepplin off "The Song Remains the Same" is 25 or 26 minutes J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

OK, then I could also kill a person... that is the natural extension of your argument... since a law prohibiting the killing of a person would not apply to a religion... That's the point... in my example of property taxes its not a law concerning religion, it is a law concerning property owners, period. If the church happens to be a proerty owner, then the law should apply to them, as a property owner, not as a church... You are interpriting by choosing 1) which part of the clause to focus on, and 2) by which definitions of the words you choose to use. Use different definitions of a few key words, and the clause means something different. You need to take the whole clause, not just two words, "...no law respecting an establishment of religion..." one of the definitions of "establishment" is "the act of establishing"... you are using one definition of establishment, I'm using another... we are both interpriting the word to mean something different... We can do it with "respecting"... "to feel or show deferential regard for" or "concerning"... If take the words, as you have suggested, and define them, one can very easily get to the government cannot pass a law showing deferential treatment for, or establish a religion... easier in fact than getting to the idea that that laws don't apply to the church. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

So under that premis things like ritual sacrifice or multiple mairage are OK, because none of the nation's laws apply to religions... or hey, blowing up the WTC was OK because they were practicing religion, so the laws against hijacking and murder don't apply... You think I'm making up stuff, look in the mirror... If you just look at the words that are there it says the government will not estabish a religion, or prevent the practice of religion... everything else is interpritation... I understand your interpritation coincides with the court's, and mine does not, so your's is the law of the land... that does not mean it is right, and that is why court appointments are so important. You can't pass a law that only applies to religions, say all religions must pay a tax... but you can (or should be able to) pass a law that applies to a church as a larger group, say all property owners must pay a tax... they pay the tax not because they are a church, but becasue they are a property owner. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Did you forget which side of the debate you are on? If you take what is written, " no law respecting the establishment of religion" the government cannot establish official religion of the United States... interpritation has gotten us where we are today... The Constitution does not require special treatment, it requires that the government ignore religion... to provide spacial treatment is to respect the establishment. That's correct, you can't pass a law that says tax the church... but you can (or should) pass one that says ALL property owners must pay taxes... to then exempt the church is to respect the establishment. By the way the 1st says nothing at all about taxation of anyone, me or the church. Edit to add... by your logic, Bill, no laws apply to the church... so they can do what ever they please... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

The 1st does not guarantee the press the right to confidetial informants, nor does it allow the reporter the right to be complicit in the commission of a crime... The act of leaking the information was a criminal one, it is not the same as protecting a source that leaked information that may be newsworthy and embarrassing, but not otherwise classified. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

So is the judge not allowed some discression in sentencing based on the facts of the underlying case? Some people get the minimum, some get the max, right? J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Lying about a shootout, a violent crime that phyiscally endangered the public, and lying about a BJ or stock trade are the same? J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

I don't think the 1st Amendment was intended to be used to cover up a crime... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Do I get to give you a warning? Yes paying taxes is unnatural... but it is something that property owners do... and by the church down the street getting a pass, mine are higher... The intent of the Establishment Clause, and the Free Exercise clasue is that the government cannot establish a religion, nor prevent you from practicing one... that is all... no special treatment or lack of treatment... they should be just like any other organization, property owner, yada yada yada... Ya know... as I think about it... that church down the street would be a great place for a Denny's... it would mean jobs and a better tax base for the community... time to work up an ED case... Perhaps your school... each example I gave is something that has been in the news within the last year... governments preventing the "free exercise" of religion. Edit to add... So which side has me "brainwashed"? I think churchs should pay taxes, but there should be more flexibility in public use of public facilities... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

The government taxes everyone, then exempts certain groups, they have recognized them by granting an exepmtion... this is particularly true when it comes to property taxes... Governments also provide services to them, police and fire protection, trash hauling etc... yet no taxes... if the govenment colapsed tomorrow, I would stop paying taxes, but would also stop receiving services. But there is forced exclusion of religion... no religios songs in student talent shows for example... or where a "Jesus Saves" t-shirt to school... or let a group of kids try to start a prayer club at lunch... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Either Abe was a plagiarist or it was actually Thomas Jefferson that wrote that in 1802. It was in response to a letter he received from the Danbury Baptisits who were complaining about the CT state legislature's view of religious rights, that being they were "favors" granted by the government, not rights... Jefferson's response was to assure the group that the government at the national level would not trample their rights , more pursuant to the "Free Exercise" clause. It did not really become part of the Consitutional vernacular until Everson v. Board in 1947 Yet the government routinely does... it gives religions preferential tax status... free exercise is prohibited in schools... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

And "public use" shall mean seeking a higher tax base... And "Equal Protection" shall mean equal protection except for Affermative Action... And "no law respecting an establishment of religion" shall mean that a cross cannot be placed in a public sqaure at personal expense, in spight of the words that immediately follow that clause, "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"... or we can even create new principles "the separation of Church and State" that appear nowhere in the Consitution. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

In a tangible sense yes, in a legal sense not necessarily... If he had revealed the name to an agent of a specific enemy, perhaps... The same would apply to your TK scenario... if he called the NK ambassedor and said "we have a bug in your office", that could qualify, if he said on the floor of the Senate that we have ways to listen to the NK ambassedor, maybe not... There is actually history of classified programs being outed by represenatives during budget debates... Is it illegal, yes... Is it treason, no... If he did do it he should get 10 years and $50K for each person he told. If Bush knew he did it and did not fire him, or worse, directed it, he should be impeached. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Bill, you really need to look up the legal definition of Treason... there are two elements of the crime 1) waging war against the US, and 2) Providing aid and comfort to the enemy... What Rove is rumored to have done meets neither of those elements... That does not mean it is not a crime, just not treason. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Like I said, if he did do it, charge him, and take him to trial... if he's guilty, throw the book at him... ignorance is no excuse... and if it was for political purpose, all the worse. But in response to the original question of th e thread... even *if* he did do it, it is not Treason in a legal sense. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

And judicial interpretation does neither... it just leaves things up to further interpretation, by future courts... J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

OK, I did a quick look and my version does not have the clause titled in that way (it has State Citizens and Extradition), nor does the original document... regardless, that clause was rendered inoperative by the 13th Amendment. There is a process set out for "updating" the Constitution, and it is not through judicial interpretation, it is through Amendment, just as in the citation above... Amending the manual does not change the interpretation of the document, it changes the document itself... there is a difference. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Where does it require that? The word slave appears nowhere in the original Consitution. The pledge is referenced in the Constitution? Nope. Well you can run unleaded in an engine made to take leaded, but not the other way around... regardless, it does not change the manual... now VW counld issue and Amendment if they wanted to change the actual document... much the way that if we need to address the operating instructions for the governement we can amend the Constitution, something that is done through the legislative process, not the judical one. J All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke