Zennie

You can still see? Whatever that picture was burned the back of my retinas. I'm typing from memory... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Here's to hoping I have a job by Jan. 19! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

ramon gave me this tip and I did countless sit jumps just drilling it in. But the basic idea is that you should always be able to hold heading. When I was first learning would exit, get into a stable sit and then take a heading. From there I would do: 1. Left/right 360. 2. Left/right cartwheel. 3. 2 forward flips. 4. 2 back flips. The idea is to do each of these maneuvers and end up back on heading and stable. Once you get these down you can start working on things like horizontal (arm & leg position, as well as backflying & stands) & vertical proximity (the forward drive with hips & feet that others have mentioned). Lately I've been doing two ways working on proximity -- usually trying to do toe touches & such. Every now & then I'll do a jump where I just bust out whatever moves me at the moment. I'll go into a sit & then spin it like crazy & try to stay stable -- or if I go unstable learning to straight to vRW stable. I do the same things with stands... spin 'em until I go unstable and then go straight to vRW. This teaches you how to handle instability without corking. Plus spins are fun!

Happy B-Day! Looks like you had a lot of fun! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

First off, I'm sorry for whatever happened to you and whatever it is that you have gone through. But even if $X million may be justified in your case, it doesn't change my opinion of the general dyfunctionality of our system. As you yourself say, you can't put a price on certain things. But that's exactly what juries are being asked to do. And there's no real equation for it. Again, lost earning capacity, lost wages, medical expenses, costs for medicine, past & future doctors vists, therapy, that sort of thing are all readily quantifiable & calculable. I don't have a problem with those types of damages. I think they are entirely appropriate and serve to make the person as "whole" as best you can. It's the unliquidated damages, those not subject to any real formula (other than how much do you think they should get?) that I have a problem with for the very reason you stated... you can't put a price on them. And more often than not those amounts are sent through the roof by shrewd manipulation of people's (i.e. the jury's) prejudices against "deep pockets". Again, I'm sorry if my feelings on this make you angry or upset, but that is my opinion and it has been shaped by my experience. You naturally have a very different experience and a different attitude, and you are entitled to it. I don't know what happened in your case, but I hope that you can recover as best as you are able. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Nope. Not in the US. Those verdicts come from juries. And that's a whole other soapbox... The really excessive ones are often reduced by the judge. But the fact is people are getting rich off civil suits. In fact, most of the frivilous ones are filed by people knowing full well that it will be more expensive for the defendant to defend the frivilous suit than just settle for $X now. So that's what happens, I file a lawsuit and then the defendant coughs up money to make me go away. And that I call "legalized extortion"... As most of you have probably surmised, I don't view the American legal system in a very positive light. That comes from seeing it in operation firsthand -- and I got so disgusted with it I decided to leave. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Sure. But tangible as in $10+ million tangible? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

OK, being an ex-lawyer, maybe I'm just a tad cynical, but that's not the reason why most people sue. Most people sue for one reason... to get rich. Plain & simple. I call it the "legal lotto". They lawyer takes & files the case because he wants to hit it big and retire. The clients file the case because they want to hit it big and retire. Oh sure, they rationalize it. They want to "punish" the offending party, they want to "deter" this kind of situation from happening in the future, they just want "compensation" for their mostly intangible injuries. But when you really get right down to it, they just want to capitalize on misfortune. Suing strictly to recoup tangibles... medical costs, lost wages, etc. is one thing. But that's not where todays monstrous verdicts come from. That vast, vast majority of today's verdicts come from intangible "losses" -- pain & suffering, loss of companionship, emotional distress. These are the *cha-ching!* claims. Most people (myself included -- though I recognize it & try to control it) are motivated by money. You want to find the cause of just about any problem in today's society? Just follow the money trail.... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Absolutely agree. People may be misunderstanding what "the Houston Contingent" was driving at. I'll just give my experience as an example of something that I think is a good compromise. I weigh about 185-190 out the door. My first jump was on a Sabre 190. After about 5 jumps on that I started easing myself into a Sabre 170. Did the 170 for about 20-ish jumps after that and started easing myself into a Sabre 150, which was what people (instructors & experienced jumpers) were recommending I buy. I've put around 150 jumps on the 150 and I'm now demoing 135s and have pretty much settled on a Cobalt (though I have yet to demo a Crossfire or Stiletto). So my "wingloading progression" as it were was: 1-5: ~1.0 6-20: ~1.1 20-175: ~1.26 I won't have my new canopy for probably a few months, so my guess is I won't be flying 1.4 until around the 250-275 jump mark. This still may be considered going too fast by some folks, but I have yet to make a downsize decision without discussing it at length with several high-number jumpers first. My point is, however, I don't think anybody here would advocate a 1.2 wingloading for the first time jumper. The question becomes whether it maybe appropriate for a low-timer. Again it depends on the person. Some pilots probably shouldn't, others, it's OK. The big thing is talking and listening to experienced canopy pilots who are familiar with your flying. If they aren't ask them to watch a few of your aproaches & landings. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I bought mine through Square1. Go to the online catalogue & click on Accessories, then Books & Videos. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Actually, Pat Works also recommends it in The Art of vRW I believe. The idea is to understand how a good head down *feels*... and Pat's approach is a very Zen "be one with your environment" kind of thing. I've kind of thought about doing this as a way of really getting a feel for the wind being balanced all around my body, but I never quite had the guts to actually shut 'em for a bit. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Ugly Chick # 3.14 reporting for duty! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I am not a camera flier, but everything I've read from camera fliers incudes the importance of being willing to ditch your equipment and being able to do it fast. Most recommend a quick release system which you can do one handed. In order to avoid entanglement probs after cutting away, wouldn't it be a good idea to hit the quick release, cut away, make sure everything has cleared and then pop reserve? If you release the helmet first, the helmet will be gone with the main in the event of an entanglement and stay with you if the cutaway was clean. Also, if it's "pre" released, you won't lose precious altitude dealing with all the nastiness that a helmet/cutaway main entanglement would entail. Camera people? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I've had heart palpitations when I took certain decongestants and had a lot of caffeine. They would go away when I cut back. I've had a heart murmur all my life so I wore a monitor all day. Doc said nothing serious, just cut back on the caffeine. A good friend of mine had the same thing only much worse (heart fluttering, shortness of breath etc), and it didn't seem related to diet or anything. For her it was stress (which, from what you've mentioned on the boards, may be the case in your situation -- you've had to deal with a lot over the past year). They said she has Mitro Valve Prolapse something something... Basically it's not dangerous, she just needs to eliminate stress. So best wishes on the test. I'm sure you're OK. It's probably just stress related. Now managing the stress is a whole other story... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Nah I'm with you on the aggressive downsizing. I'm doing about the same as you. Have around 160 on my Sabre 150 loaded around 1.2. I'm looking at a Cobalt 135 which would put me around 1.37. I feel ready and I've asked a lot of people who know me and my flying, and who have jumps in the thousands if I was ready for that loading and they thought so. So I haven't just made this decision without a lot of consultation. I demoed a Vengeance in the same size and decided that was way too much canopy for me. I'll prolly try a Stiletto and Crossfire in the same size, but my guess is I'll go with the Cobalt. The Cobalt seems to have just the right mix of performance & forgiveness I'm looking for. So even at a given loading you really need to shop around. But getting to your point. I've seen a *lot* of people with low jump numbers (i.e. below 500) getting into these crazy downsizing contests. One guy goes to a 120, so the next guy goes to a 110 and so on, and so on. It's silly and dangerous. There is a big big difference between being able to land a canopy and being able to fly it safely. A lot of people seem to be forgetting that. I could tell from flying the Cobalt at 1.3-ish that it has way more drive, which means you really have to be heads up when flying back to the DZ. I'll have plenty of performance for several hundred jumps. And one point was made in another thread that I wish more people would learn... it ain't so much the canopy loading as the pilot. Try to be a better pilot before going to the hanky-chute just because you think you'll get more swoop. Yet another $0.02 "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Just coorious... When you practice on the ground do you actually go into a handstand and try to get your body into the proper position? As far as the Eagle/overunder thing goes. Now granted I'm a FF newbie, but I thought an Eagle was where one goes over and one goes under without switching orientations (such as two ppl in a sit, one going over the top and one underneath) and an overunder was where you switched orientations (one in a HD and one in a sit & both switch -- so you get a sort of rotation effect). "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Well the forum is called "Swooping & Canopy Control". But if you're bothered that many people are interested in swooping I'd note just a few things... First, swooping is becoming very popular.... to the point of having entire events based around it. So I think it's kind of natural for people to become interested and ask quesitons about it. Second, most of the "standard" landing skills should have hopefully been covered while folks were still on student status. Not that such questions wouldn't be welcomed here anyway. Finally and most important, I think forums like this are a good thing from a safety perspective. If people talk about techniques & training methodologies, I think more people will use safe practices which reduce the risk of injury. Me personally? I want to learn to swoop. Not to impress anyone (I'm married), but because it's fun. At the same time I'm not in any big macho race to fly the smallest canopy or bust out a 180 snap hook at 400 feet with my jump numbers. I'm going at it gradually and trying to learn how my canopy flies. The questions that I've seen here seem to be from people who are at a similar stage and I find the questions intelligent and the provided information extremely useful. Just my $0.02 "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Oh I forgot to add that you'll need to know 1/2 flips to do over/unders later on as well. And real good tip geoff, I'll have to try that next time.

I do this on every reserve repack. You can also do it at home. Just put the reserve/container/freebag in a big plastic bag and make sure to leave a little hole to allow moisture to escape. Leave it in a cool dark place until it's time to take it to your rigger. And don't forget to include your handles! (My rigger told me this was the most frequently forgotten item). "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Yeah I've had better luck with cartwheels too. Still flail a bit on the legs to try and get stabilized, but it seems to work best. Course you really need to learn both flips & cartwheels. Cartwheel keeps you facingthe same direction. A 1/2 flip will set you facing the opposite direction. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

BRING YOUR CAMERAS!!!!! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Shark is cool but I still have to go with Pink. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Pink, hands down. It's cool, it's crazy, it's funny as hell and it's damn good artistry. "Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

ANGELS!!!! "Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."

Ya know the longer I'm in this sport the more I appreciate a good pilot. Wonder if the passengers even had a clue. "Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control. Unable to forgive. And we're sinking deeper."