Zennie

Merry merry! Happy happy everyone!

rob - I just sort of realized I might be oversensitive to what you were driving at. I took your statement as a response to me, so I was just pointing out that I was aware of his weight (and the fact that he was arching like crazy) when I posted my thoughts. I agree with what you posted. So if I come across as snippy, it's probably because I have been lately. Sorry. Merry Christmas everyone! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Ummmm... better go back & reread his post. Second thing he said was "i weigh maybe 135 naked". "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

If you're really floaty a tight fitting jumpsuit will help as well. The less drag he better. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Now if you guys could pull off a train exit, I'd be seriously impressed. Great pics! Those are definite keepers! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Not very polite. But look at it this way, the Karma's good on your end.

LOL! If the military hired me they'd have a serious "Stripes" situation on their hands. "That's the fact Jack!!!!!" "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

One lump or two? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

OK I just gotta ask this. So I'm browsing the award photos section in Parachutist and come across the award photos out at Lodi. And, once again, as in every other Lodi award picture I've seen, there's this guy doing the "beefcake" pose for the camera. His name never appears to be mentioned but he's in every single shot. So what's the deal? Is this some sort of inside joke? Enquiring minds want to know! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Heh. Need a contract coder? Will code for jumps! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

That's easy! You.... Good one! I totally forgot that one. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Actually just thought of two others (can't add them to the poll after the fact).... "What is a beerable offense?" "What is an acceptable beer to bring in payment of beer debt?" "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I knew Clay would *rise* to the occasion. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Just watching the debates over the last few weeks I kind of got this sense of "deja vu all over again". So just for fun, I thought this might be an approriate time for the following poll: What Is The Most Frequently Rehashed Argument In Skydiving? To AAD or not to AAD? To RSL or not to RSL? To throwout or pullout? To hook or not to hook? RW vs. Freefly. Who's the better flier? Am I loading my canopy too high? How do I make a skyball? Does Joe Kittinger hold the freefall record? Other. Please post & elaborate. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Oh gawd not this argument again! I heard a funny story about the Kittinger jump... Apparently when he left the balloon he looked up and saw it instantly shoot away like a rocket. His first thought was, "Wow I didn't think my weight would make that much difference for it to shoot up like that." Then he realized it wasn't the balloon shooting up. It was him screaming down through the basically nonexistent atmosphere. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Yup. If I get close to my salary at Enron ($~65K) I'll be happy. Used to be a programmer with my experience could command $80-90 K easily. Not anymore. On the upside, being without a job has forced Liz & I to take major cuts in our activities (eating out, skydiving etc.) to the point that I think we can just squeak by on her salary. So when I do get another job, hopefully I can skydive even at a lesser salary since we're a little smarter about our expenses now. Everything is a matter of perspective. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

You sure he/she didn't let up on the toggles? It's really hard to discipline yourself to keep the toggles down when you're rising up like that -- but you have to do it. Even at 15' a canopy that size should set you down fairly soft if you keep the toggles buried. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

It's kinda funny. A good friend of mine got out of skydiving about the time that I started to pick it up (name's Mark Horn, aka Sparkie just in case one of you might know him). I've browsed a lot of his posts from the wreck archive to see what the debates of about 5-6 years ago were about. Well guess what? One of them was toggle vs. riser turns. Sparkie happened to be an advocate riser turns... noting as Chuck and others have, the increased margin for error, and increased speed, that it provides. Here's a sample from 1994: >I have heard that pulling down on the risers is better for two reasons: >First, it keeps your body under the canopy and not to the side during a >turn I don't believe this. You don't have to watch too many people doing front riser hook turns to see that they swing out from under their canopy plenty. >and second, if you misjudge the landing, you can let go the riser and >get a normal canopy shape as soon as the lines stretch back out. I'm not sure I understand the significance of the above. However, consider what you're doing when you pull on one toggle. You're decreasing the air speed on one side of the canopy. If you decrease it enough, you stall. I personally worry that I misjudge the proper altitude for my hook turns. If I initiate my toggle hook turn too low, one half of my canopy has little or no lift generating airspeed. Without that airspeed, I have no flare power left for one half of my canopy: I *will* land very hard. However, if I initiate my front riser hook turn too low, I have not depleted any of the flare power from either side of my canopy. I have all the flare I need in both halves of the canopy. Maybe I'll have to do a cross wind landing, but I'll have much better success with a canopy that's capable of giving me a decent flare than one without. >I don't do riser turns for two reasons. They seem to be more difficult than >toggle turns. They're generally slower turning than toggle turns. Which means that you have to initiate them a bit higher, where your judgement of precisely how high you are is less accurate. However, this is something that takes a bit of practice. Eventually, it's not really that much more difficult. >When do you release your front risers and use your toggles? I like to release about a second before I flare. Usually something like: pull on left front riser, come around 180 degrees, (If too high, pull on both front risers), release, take a deep breath, flare. It's really easy to identify that you're too low in the middle of the the hook turn. At that point, just release the front riser and flare. >Also, it seems to me that using too much front riser can easily collaspe a >canopy. Certainly, if you pull down too much on the front of your canopy, you risk collapsing the canopy. However, I've never been able to get my sabre to collapse doing this. On some jump, pull at 5000 and *try* and collapse your canopy with your front risers. If you do, then you know what your limits are for using front risers on landing. >Proof may be in the fact that every collapsed canopy accident I read about >seems to involve a front riser landing. Hmmm.. all the collapsed canopy accidents I read about involve high wind days, and landing behind obstacles. Landing in general is a dangerous thing to do on a high wind day, at a DZ with many obstacles. *IF* you choose to jump in these conditions, you should be extremely careful about doing any kind of hook turn - either either riser, or toggle. >It seems to me that one of the most dangerous things you >can do is limit air pressure during a high speed landing. I would think the most dangerous thing you can do is to cut off your means of landing safely: i.e. your flare. Toggle hook turns just remove too much of my flare for me to be comfortable with. The above is not meant as any sort of edict dictating how anyone should behave. It is my recommendation that those who perform hook turns use front riser hook turns. It is my belief that this type of hook turn is *significantly* safer than a toggle hook turn. However, if you are doing hook turns, or intend to, you probably should establish your own ideas on this subject and decide for yourself. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

And also because they are usually upper management who are in a position to see the writing on the wall before everyone else can... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Lessee.... Monty Python The Onion Who's Line Joe Cartoon Brian Regan (brilliant stand-up - thought I was gonna die) Sean Morey (another great stand-up comic) The Blues Brothers The "Pecos Parachute School" scene in Fandango "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Umm.... how bout a "both" option? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

If it's just a plain Yahoo account then it's free (plus you can get Yahoo IM and bug your friends all times of the day! I like the swinger angle though. Verrrry twisted. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Eh, I get in so much trouble anyway she might just say "Go ahead & make someone else's life miserable for a change." "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I say we hook her up with Clay or skreamer. She's a "fun" chick after all. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Liz had already made other plans for me. Sorry I missed it. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."