jenfly00

My bad, I read it as 'tax-paying citizens'. I apologize for calling it silly. What is covered is beyond what any of us can come up with here. Aside from my suggestion to providing compassionate end of life care for the irrecoverably ill and diverting those mega billions to medical care for those who have a chance to actually recover and live a life, I don't have specifics other than to refuse to cover 'elective' surgeries. I certainly don't have the answer to the tangled nest of illegal immigration problems. I certainly would be most generous with preventative care, medical care for children and peri-natal care. Other than that, the decision to move in that direction needs to be made first ...the most complex details to be worked out in the process. I doubt it would be easy. I also doubt it will happen. Too many powerful people and corporations have the present system locked. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

How do you define basic health care, and who do you think should get to define it in each case? Because the answer will be vastly different if it's the patients rather than the doctors. Or an HMO. And the answer to that question is the key to any meaningful work ever happening on this issue. Edit to add: does you mean that taxpaying non-citizens are ineligible for that same sort of basic healt care? Wendy W. I agree it is a complex issue (your edit is just plain silly, however). We need to do it, however, because it is the right thing to do. It is the human thing to do. It is the American thing to do. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

No comment about the severity of sentencing, let's define 'bad'. He was smuggling pot, he was stopped, he ran away, they shot him in the back (in the ass, actually). ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I suppose looking at it one way, I am a cold peckerwood. On the other hand, I could accuse you of being of the opinion that anything less than outright coddling of others is by its nature uncaring and unkind. I suppose you don't see the kindness in cruelty, do you? The two cruelest and kindest people I ever knew were the same two people: My physical therapist, who tortured me for about a month to get back full range of motion in my knee; and my drill sergeant, who wouldn't let me believe I couldn't. Both of them told me and showed me that the pain of moving forward is, in the long run, less than the pain of not moving forward. Drill sergeant Nichols, especially, showed me that I had capabilities I had never known because I hadn't pushed myself. So HE pushed me and wouldn't let me quit. It soon became me pushing myself, because I wouldn't let him push me. The cruelest person I ever knew. He was also the kindest. So, jen, I'll ask you these questions: 1) Which is nicer? Convincing someone to go through the hell of rehab, or just letting them live the more easily tolerated hell of addiction? 2) Which is nicer? Putting someone through the hell of chemotherapy, or convincing the person try living with cancer untreated? 3) Which is nicer? Getting my child to go out and play, or letting him watch TV and eat chips nd drink soda, which is what he may realy want to do? 4) Which is nicer? Coddling a person, or having expectations of a person? Human kindness comes from different things. Letting people feel sorry for themselves is NEVER a good thing, in my book. Helping people move forward IS a nice thing, even though it doesn't seem like it at the time. "The milk of human kindness?" Even babies get weaned. They hate it, but it happens because we all must move forward. It so happens, it's a kind thing to do to growing children. "The milk of human kindness?" Is your suggestion that everyone stay on the teat of someone else through perpetuity? That's mean to all involved. I'd willingly support giving the college student with the UTI a few dollars in antibiotics. Back to the point of the thread. It's basic health care and I believe should be supplied to every citizen. I appreciated the candor in you response in the compassion thread, BTW. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Is that a lawyer technique? Draw others into your disagreement for support? Damn, I see why you make the big bucks. Dude, read your own posts. They ain't exactly dripping with the milk of human kindness. Poor baby. Want me to get you a tissue?

Dear Blue Face, CT scans??? I'd be happy if you simply allow them through the door of the ER. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Gotta love the thinly veiled "you don't understand this like we do, so you're stupid" PA's.... Poor baby. Here's a tissue. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Do you -seriously- believe the insurgents give a rats ass about the -mid-term elections and are timing their attacks on their own people based on that? Who is filling your head with such ridiculous ideas? I believe he is self taught. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Is that a lawyer technique? Draw others into your disagreement for support? Damn, I see why you make the big bucks. Dude, read your own posts. They ain't exactly dripping with the milk of human kindness. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

[From my mom (Advanced Registered Nurse Practicioner ER/Trauma)]: Agreed, but what she is doing is spending (a minute?) talking with them in the waiting room and sending them packing. Early CHF can easily be masked by the common cold. To hell with those useless lab results and radiographic studies, she passed her internship (where?). Wow! Her ...weeks (?) of experiences in small ER's seem to exceed those of large trauma centers. I might go a year at Jackson without seeing a SAH. And she can do all this in the waiting room. You go girl! And she does this standing in the waiting room? I agree with her there, except she seems to lean toward financial rather than medical triage. It's against the law, a violation of ethics and will some day bite her in the ass. In addition, she has to realize that many do not have a primary care doc and she is denying them the only medical care they can get. Hopefully she'll grow out of it and stick to practicing medicine rather than reforming society. Yep! :) You should have told her your comments were prompted my me, hun. I agree with her feelings but I admit it ruffles me a bit to have new docs, fresh out of an internship, passing on the residency to actually give them the experience to practice in ER, who feel their diagnostic prowness exceeds those who have spent years in specialty residencies with decades of experience. Ah, youth! :) If she is working a 24 hr shift she is not working a hot ER. Send her down to Miami for a few weeks. All in all, don't be too hard on her, she is new to her profession and like all of you (you included) knows everything. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Yeah, fuck that beer drinking, irresponsible student with the UTI (probably some slut with an STD). Her life's experiences will be enriched by a lifetime of dialysis. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

While I agree with you in principle, these people came to the ER because they were truly concerned about their health. Your decisions would, sooner or later (statistically speaking), turn away the URI that actually was masking early heart failure, bronchitis, early asthma or innominate artery tracheal compression. The headache patient that was actually a slow but potentially deadly sub arachnoid bleed, the gastroenteritis that was a beginning bowel perforation in an ulcer patient. You would treat the anaphylactic shock ...after it bacame anaphylactic shock ...and turn the bug bite patients away. Statistically, you would have a great average. Doctors who are "solely ER physicians" (i.e. experienced, competent board certified emergency care doctors) know these long shot diagnoses exist ...so they examine and treat these patients. I have little doubt that your decisions were sincere ones based, for the most part, on the training you have. However, let's be honest, small town general practicioners covering the ER (who generally get a fair amout of time in their sleep room), really want to get back to their sleep room. In addition, they refer the patient to their local docs (themselves!). I have no doubt their main motivation is they really don't see an emergent problem, but I suspect full time certified ER docs realize that making that call in the waiting room, following a few second conversation with a potential patient is not the way to go. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Thank you for pointing that out. It is presumed that the government is gonna pay for it, right? And yet, this thread is loaded with accusations that we are not a socialist system. The problem with our system IS socialism, not the lack of it. If health care is expensive now, wait till you see how expensive it is when it's free. I resent that comment. Perhaps it is easy for you to draw lines as being between those who care and those who cannot show compassion. Well, if the world really was that simple, it would be nice. But don't go suggesting that I lack human compassion. I put my money where my mouth is, sister. I quit working at a hospital because of the fucking nightmares I was having. Compassion? How about the remarkable lack of human compassion and understanding it took for you to accuse me of such things? The comment was absolutely uncalled for. I disagree. Dude, you're a lawyer!!! Play the hurt feelings card somewhere else. More to the point, it's not out of line, after reading post after post of essentially 'I got mine, you're on your own' to state your suggestions are a bit less than filled with compassion for your fellow human being on this issue. Socialism, smoshilism. Label it what you like, I feel that the United States of America should provide basic (yes, basic) health care to it's citizens. It's a value judgment. I got mine and you, well you're a lawyer. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Apparently, the FBI still has not found anything they can arrest him for. http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/fbi_yet_to_find.html Has GLAAD made any public statements on this issue? Sounds to me like the investigation is simply still in progress. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Indeed, the law requires only a screening by a physician. I asked my mom about this (ER nurse for a couple of decades) and she has never seen or heard of this happening in practice. You are an ER physician??? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Actually, they are almost never transferred because of the following requirement "the receiving hospital has been contacted and agrees to accept the transfer, and has the facilities to provide the necessary treatment to him" About the only time transfer occurs is if the public hospital offers a level of care (e.g. neurosurgery) or equipment (e.g. MRI) not available at the original hospital. You can contact the public hospital and when they have a bed not required by patients already admitted there (or in the ER pending admission) they'll get back to you. The county hospital in Miami has admitted patients in the ER waiting days for a bed, so guess how long the original hospital will keep the patient. If the patient is a costly ICU patient, by definition, they are in critical condition and cannot be transferred. Most hospitals don't even make the effort. Better than coming back to haunt the kid as an untreated UTI that progressed to kidney failure and life time dialysis (paid for by medicare, BTW)

Nope, not my issue. You misunderstand. I was not talking about people who want to live, I was talking about the ones who (if able) were pleading to be left in peace. I was talking about the masses of protoplasm, bodies wasted by multi-system failure, drowning in secretions, open bed sores large enough to place your forearms in, regularly debrided (i.e. scraped raw to remove necrotic tissue), hauled off to surgery for bowel resection. Comatose diabetics with legs amputated due to gangrene. Patients who's eyes convey pain and suffering that give no indication whatsoever that they want to live. If you think I exaggerate or that this happens rarely, visit ANY ICU in South Florida. Pick any hospital you want ...you'll find the same thing ...these patients comprise the majority of all unit patients. We keep them alive ...for money. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

They don't need to be forced, they want to ...it's money!!!! If the family is around, they usually have the choice, but people in crisis pretty much go along with the professionals. In South Florida alone, there are thousands of geriatrics who are unable to make sound decisions regarding their medical care. They either have outlived all family members or the family has long liqidated anything of value and disappeared. These patients will be kept alive, in ICU, for years, if possible. For two years, I worked as a court appointed advocate for hospital patients in this situation. Getting them in the program was a lengthy process in and of itself. Getting hospitals to comply with DNR (Do Not Recussitate) was tedious, and actual withdrawal of life support sometimes took weeks. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I don't know whether to use the Homer Simpson/Ross Perot quote or just go straight to Logan's Run. pirana has it right Quit using EXTREME examples; let's start talking about the family earning 25k/yr orthe college kid trying to get an education to contribute post grad. These are the people who need medical care who can;t afford it. See, that's the thing. Medical care could be provided from birth to death without spending ANY additional public dollars!!! Stop prolonging the pain and suffering of those at the upper end of the life cycle and provide compassionate quality end of life care. Take the billions/trillions of dollars saved each year and America could easily provide good quality health care for it's citizens throughout the life cycle. Personally, I believe our government providing health care for it's citizens is right up there with providing education, clean water and roads. We could do it easily ...and it wouldn't cost an additionl dime! ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I don't think it's illegal if he'sof age. Is it sexual harassment? Perhaps, but that's not a crime, but a civil violation. Is it creepy? Yeppers...but is it something he can serve time for? Again, it all hinges on the recipient's age at the time and the age of consent. Ciels- Michele Under the very law Foley had a large part in getting passed, it is a criminal (not civil) violation to send such internet communication to anyone under the age of 18. Doesn't matter if the age of consent for sex is 12 in their state of residence, if they are under 18, you are, under the provisions of the act, a criminal and sexual predator. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I'd invite you to go to LA County USC medical center's ER some day to see about "reasonable healthcare" provided to those who can't afford it. Perhaps we should look at where our present health care dollars are being spent ...and why. I'd invite you to go to any Intensive Care Unit in South Florida and see how health care dollars are being spent. Currently we are spending mega bucks keeping 80, 90, 100 year old veggies alive beyond all reasonable and compassionate standards of quality of life. For the ones that are somewhat sensate, they suffer the pain and indignities of procedures and surgeries for as long as modern medicine can keep them alive ...and modern medicine is very good at prolonging life! Why do we do this? In a word ...money. Medicare dollars, the life's blood of hospital income. If they should improve, they are shipped back to the Nursing Home they came from where they can continue to lay in their own waste until end of shift cleanups...until the next heart attack or stroke when they are again shipped off to the ER and ICU to be farmed for more Medicare dollars. [google a search for "medicare icu dollars"] Shifting the billions (trillions?) of dollars spent annually on these people to 'reasonable' free health care for citizens who have a chance to enjoy a quality of life given the benefit of reasonable health care wouldn't cost any additional dollars. It's a win-win senario with the current much suffering cash crop of geriatrics being provided loving, compassionate end of life care to make their last days peaceful and pain free. Of course, this won't happen. Why? Because the current system is an extremely profitable industry with waaay too many hospitals, physicians and corporations making fortunes. Their combined political clout is most formidable. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Hmmm. Emergency Departments have to keep records of dog bites, including breed. In the late 90's the large county hospital in Miami (JMH) published some data that identified Rotweiliers and pitbulls as the dogs involved in about 35% of all dog bites serious enough to seek emergency treatment and somewhere around 85% of all fatal attacks. The fatalities were almost always young children and the dogs were most commonly beloved family pets of either their parents or their neighbors. I accept what you say as truthful and that the majority are lovable dogs, but with statistics like these, how could one choose them as a family pet? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

...propagated by either gender. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-93433/Nobel-Prize ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

It's a desperation move ..but for now, it's all he's got. ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".