Orange1

I think it was Snow pointed out they were and a ramp was in place. I picked up on that because it would be consistent with Cooper knowing the plane could be flown with the aft door open, but not knowing exactly how to lower the stairs. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

377 - you mentioned USAID. It seems to have been "helping" the CIA with cover too - I'd seen mention of similar before, and just come across this example: Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

http://www.smokejumpers.com/smokejumper_magazine/item.php?articles_id=248&magazine_editions_id=16 just an interesting perspective from one of the CIA's smokejumpers! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

ah Snow, i think you're right... thought it was too good to be true.. saw the headline and, um, jumped to a conclusion. however, did you see earlier i did find real

The CIA rumour was right as we know from stuff here, but the 727 bit is of more interest?? I don't see a date for the "later" although the pic he refers to was taken in 1983 and he started with the smokejumpers in 1980. But, unless I am misreading the above...here we have info on smokejumpers jumping a 727. Can't remember if Evergreen had cut its CIA ties by then - will go back and check later. Source: (pretty short and interesting) http://flickr.com/photos/25387106@N06/2451897212/in/pool-federalfire [aside: So, I found a vet who was involved with the CIA, spent time at Udorn, was in the US at the right time and back in SE Asia from Dec 1971 Only one tiny picture of him that I could find in which he could look like DB Cooper or just about anyone else Anyway not gonna mention names, it's pure speculation and I haven't been able to determine his age (tho the tiny pic makes him look like he could be right...)] Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

CB gear would have made sense. Paper bag? Briefcase? Accomplice presumably would have got a decent cut to keep his (or her) silence... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

lots more stuff in this link, not sure what is relevant... will read tomorrow http://www.utdallas.edu/library/uniquecoll/speccoll/aamnote/aam71.pdf Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

dark skin.... hmmm again Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

hmmm That is really the only CIA stuff on this page but 377 is gonna LOVE the rest of it http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=4&t=14154 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I keep thinking of accomplice too - if he survived. Perhaps back to the flares? How far can you see flares like that (and how useful would they actually be in that area at night) - just wondering out loud here about things that i (clearly) know very little about! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

yeah, i did say i was looking for something else... Georger - it was me who said the sketch looked younger. Sketch aside, it seems (if you look at some of those links) more than a few of those smokejumper types would have been born in the mid-late 1930s (I estimated 2 being born in 1938), which would make them in their mid-slightly late 30s at the time of the hijack - not hugely out on the age estimate of 40-45? Hmm.. just thinking as I write this, smokejumper types (remember a lot of these guys did stuff like logging in the offseason as well as CIA stuff in Asia!) would probably be fairly "weathered" and perhaps look older than they really are. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Good point, and instructive example. How long have these survivalist groups in montana & idaho been around? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I was looking for something else, but came across this - the smokejumper angle has so far centred around missoula etc and marana but here is talk of alaska smokejumpers (and of flights to fairbanks from seattle...) http://www.air-america.org/Articles/Gossett.shtml Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

oh hey another one who actually jumped with the CIA...including in the Arctic! ... and in Vietnam. (Hey 377, does this mean these guys were actually the first to jump in the Arctic?) Great article. http://www.lampasasdispatchrecord.com/news/2008/0704/front_page/002.html Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

CIA started recruiting smokejumpers pretty darn soon after it came into existence - this is the earliest reference I have come across: http://www.smokejumpers.com/smokejumper_magazine/item.php?articles_id=358&magazine_editions_id=31 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

for those interested in some of the politicking within the CIA about who was to run the covert air operations, see p2 onwards of this: http://www.utdallas.edu/library/uniquecoll/speccoll/aamnote/cialaos.pdf Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Ah... finally. Snow had said he had seen many references to smokejumpers being used as cargo kickers for the CIA/Air America but none of them jumping with them. I finally found one

I've come across mention of an old NSA newsletter called "The Static Line". There obviously wouldn't be anything on people dropping from 727s in them but possibly other interesting stuff. 377, do you think any of your contacts might have some issues lying around? I'm looking on the net to see if anything made it online, other than the odd reference. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

And the Ravens, who seem to have spent a fair bit of time in Thailand, and Udorn in particular, between their stints in Laos: http://www.smokejumpers.com/smokejumper_magazine/item.php?articles_id=355&magazine_editions_id=26 http://www.smokejumpers.com/smokejumper_magazine/item.php?articles_id=354&magazine_editions_id=25 Apologies in advance if any of these links have been posted before. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Vietnam does not necessarily rule people out... not everyone who went to fight there did so as a new adult, after all. Here's a smokejumper via Intermountain who had already been decorated in Korea, for example: http://www.smokejumpers.com/smokejumper_magazine/item.php?articles_id=353&magazine_editions_id=24 This guy also spent time in Thailand and worked on special projects at Marana from 1962-1975. Not trying to put him forward as a Cooper candidate, but again there must be a fair pool of guys like this: experience, ability, and possible/probably exposure to the 727 tests. His story also includes this

Ok, I'll sign up too. I think 377 is the closest thing to a UN Secretary General we have here. Will you "enforce" me if I slip up? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yup. After 2 decades of going after Cooper I am also intrigued as to why he settled on Gossett. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Ckret ruled him out on the basis of holes in the story but there was also something on the tangible evidence side - fingerprints i think, but maybe DNA, that he ruled him out on. I can't find the relevant post now - probably because Ckret was always very economical with his replies! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

interesting name

Fair enough Sluggo - I have done no research on Gossett (that link popped up while I was doing a search for something else). Maybe I missed it on here, or maybe I just forgot, but I don't recall it being mentioned about Steven Gossett. Whether or not he thinks the others are kooks doesn't really sway me to be honest - families have strange dynamics. BUT no matter - what is enough to make me sceptical is another claim of a confession that was "forgotten" or brushed off etc etc until suddenly someone "saw the light", in all these instances the people themselves seem to provide contradictory evidence about when they first (supposedly) "realized" what they were looking at. I haven't seen any convincing suspects at all yet to be honest. The one i "liked" best was Christiansen but Ckret just said...nay. I'm trying to remember why I dismissed Mayfield (long ago...) Georger, don't do a Jo on us please. You say you have reason to believe Cooper jumped where he felt comfortable doing so - why? I do however like your assertion that DNA testing will progress. I think people forget that newer technology is continuously being developed. So you're right, of course, and that alone will probably be able to at least "properly" eliminate suspects (Ckret mentioned 4 have already been eliminated using DNA testing). Science will probably get around the contamination issue, for those who think it is an issue (it's elimination, not planting after all). Of course should we all still be around to see it, those who do not want to accept it will continue to crank up the "conspiracy" stories while the rest will continue to roll our eyes. And so it goes. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.