Orange1

So this is what I get for trying to be nice? here's a recent example, Jo. You stated that as fact, not conjecture. ( And I've already shown why it could not possibly have been fact as you stated it, whether or not Duane saw anything.) Conjecture would have been "Duane could have..." But you know all this. You are choosing to be deliberately obtuse. Rather than get all defensive about skywhuffo's (very good) post, perhaps you should try reading it objectively. He made a lot of good points, even if you didn't like them. btw look at the forum rules - Quade has at least 2 justifications right now for closing this thread. Happy new year, Jo. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

a while back during the '727 as drop plane' discussion, you posted photos of the roller skid assemblies? at the rear end of a 727 ...... I searched back clear to 240 and cant find those photos. Any idea when and what page you posted these? I confess Im really getting lost here buried under so much peripheral "data". i haven't posted any photos - may have been snow? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Also remember those other links I posted - commercial airlines like Northweat and Pan AM were also flying soldiers to Nam using 727s. agree that is a great site. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

hm, i was hoping for more general info on FBI looking for Vietnam vets/civilians who had served there...wondering if they had made the same connections we have here. Snow, just to back up what Georger said, the USAF and Air America used Thailand as a base for the surrounding countries. Remember they were not even supposed to be in Laos at all, whcih is why it is referred to as a "secret war". I'm not sure, in terms of air activity, we need to differentiate between Thailand/Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia - it was all part of the same war. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo - again, this is not an attack, it is a statement of fact that may help you understand why some people respond the way they do to you (including some of my past responses). Georger is right - you have uncovered some amazing things. But the problem (imo) is you also have a tendency to state a number of things as though they are fact, when they are not, including things that to be honest you can't possibly know. This makes it hard to sift through what is fact and what is your opinion/deduction etc. Like I said - i can't do a proper search without the stamina to go through 100s of posts, but my recollection is that it was stated that the amount of $200K was chosen because that was the maximum under the insurance coverage. I think (my recollection may be more hazy here) that you said Duane worked for the company that insured Northwest at some stage as well? You're trying to build a case for something here. Your statements WILL be analyzed as a result. You're not in court, but people will work on the same principles, even if subconsicously: credibility depends on the overall picture given. Arguments need to be consistent and backed up by facts if they are to provide any sort of "proof". If you only think something... maybe just say so without stating it as fact? Now, a question from me - Snow's extract showed you said that the FBI had looked for people who had served in Vietnam. Do you have any more info on this? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

presumably fuselage?? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I believe a certain poster here posted that 'mythology' as a fact, claiming that someone who worked in the insurance industry would know that. I'm not sure how to do a search with enough terms to verify that without reading through hundreds of posts though. well I provided the link above for the court case where northwest had to go to court to get the money from the insurance guys. I didn't get the full article cause you have to pay, but there's enough there at the link I provided to say it's true, right? I mean we should be able to take court case docs as "close to fact" right? Agreed, I was just trying to identify the source of the myth... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I believe a certain poster here posted that 'mythology' as a fact, claiming that someone who worked in the insurance industry would know that. I'm not sure how to do a search with enough terms to verify that without reading through hundreds of posts though. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

From Snow's post, she said Agent H told her that. I'm wondering if he got the info through official channels, or via that 1996 newspaper article Snow posted the link to the other day. Edit: Snow's quote from Jo also says this: Wonder how far they searched re that angle...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I felt like you originally after reading the posts here but love my sabre 150. Admittedly I don't have hundreds of jumps on it, but I've had harder openings on a Pilot than the Sabre. It's all in the packing. I was advised by someone I could get a rigger to do a mod on the slider to slow the opening, but I haven't felt that was necessary. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Quote Possibly. I look at vietnam initially as a possible grudge angle. So all sorts of people could have come back with a grudge of some kind. But yeah, an aviation link might be important, since Cooper seemed to display some aviation knowledge or jump knowledge.Quote Yeah, I was thinking more that someone in the aviation field would have been more likely to know about the 727 tests. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Thanks Snow - that is interesting. btw my reading of the smokejumper program is that they were classed as civilians as well. I do think the Vietnam or at least SE Asia link has been made a lot stronger since we learnt about the 727 tests there. Not sure (roadbuilding) engineers would have been involved with that though, I would think our pool of suspects would be limited to people involved in some way with aviation. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

So can we say BASE jumping is regressive? I am looking for any excuse not to do it. 377 C'mon 377 - your excuse is the same reason you don't swoop. The risk outweighs what you are comfortable with. That's not being a wuss, that's being rational. Me, I like things like altitude and reserves Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

My daughter, who was 4 at the time, did a few minutes in the tunnel and LOVED it - so much so that she told us if she had to choose between going back to the tunnel or back to Disneyland the next day (we were in Orlando) she wanted to do tunnel!! (she got to do both btw ) Minimum age for SL or AFF is 16 with parental consent required under ...well I presume 18 now as our age of majority has been lowered from 21. Tandem is up to the discretion of the TM (and obviously need parental consent), I have seen kids jump tandem. In 2 minds about that one. I've seen some who loved it and wanted to go back, but also one whose dad was a jumper and he had obviously been pushed into it - i was on the same load as him and the poor little guy seemed terrified, it didn't seem right to me. I have seen TMs turn down people both because they feel they are too young and too old, but there is always another TM who will take them I guess... smokejumper - bigger canopies because...? (accuracy? or does bigger only work for that with squares?) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I did some tunnel a couple of years ago (we don't have tunnels here, we had to make a trip to the US for it). I thought it was loads of fun, but not as exciting as a skydive - not the danger aspect for me, i just love love love the feeling of letting go of an aeroplane, doing bigger ways (I know sme tunnels fit 8-way, but no bigger?) and swooping down to a formation. You don't get anyone falling off early in the tunnel and having to catch them. Oh, and you have no views in a tunnel If smokejumpers were doing work for the CIA & Air America, I wonder if there was any chance of one of them being on that load - there was cargo dropped as well, right? 377, any answer to my Q before about any differences in the SL and freefall rigs in the old days or could you pack the same rig for either opening? No-one has yet volunteered any info about what rigs the smokejumpers used. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I can't remember, did I post the link that included discussion of the B-17 that "everyone knew" Air America had but wasn't in its inventory? Also that link on Intermountain talks about them basically being able to do what they wanted with all the aircraft parts lying around... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

No idea re the US. Ours are reported along with inujuries and fatalities, as well as the reasons for them happening. Re youtube etc, well as with anything -l ike newspapers - there is a limited audience for things that go nomrally and smoothly. There is for example a video on skydivingmovies.com called "How not to do 4-way" featuring a team called Chasing Amy, which is a favourite among novice 4-way teams, but to the average youtube user i'm not sure it holds nearly as much interest as, eg, the guy who survived a double mal by landing in the bushes. I don't spend much time on youtube (in fact other than your links, i spend no time there). Are there any of the Golden Knights or Arizona Airspeed videos on there? If so do they get nearly as many hits as the malfunction videos? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I'm not sure about the US, but here every reserve deployment requires an incident form to be filled out. So yes, we do. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

... i get THIS as a google ad on the sidebar!? I am inclined to blame Snow and 377 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Whose idea was it that it was "counter culture"?I'm sure then, as now, most people jumped because they love jumping, not to be counterculture. I'm sure there were a few (as there are now) who revel in that aspect but it's not a good reason to fling yourself out of a plane. I'm sure there were a number of whuffos who thought it was counterculture without knowing any skydivers to prove them wrong (I still get the odd person saying to me "but you don't look like a skydiver"...and they are surprised to hear we come from all walks of life) Seems like there was also a lot of crossover with military jumpers in those days (possibly more than now but I don't know how to look for substantiation) which would reduce the "counterculture" aspect further. This has nothing to do with Cooper, unless you take the view that he was a skydiver and either (1) he was in a suit to disguise his "counterculture" background or (2) he wore suits anyway when he wasn't jumping, and this made him quite normal for the times. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

A lot of the skydivers got bored or antagonistic with this thread. People on dz.com jumped Issaquah in the 60s. Maybe you don't get the year exact, but for example: (don't go bugging Jerry now, y'hear?) http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3003415;search_string=Issaquah%20;#3003415 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2294937;search_string=Issaquah%20;#2294937 here he wasn't there that early but knew about stuff that happened in 63: (in another post he says he started jumping in early 64, pretty close no?) http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3229420;search_string=Issaquah%20;#3229420 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

LOL . Sky's -way- too short to be DB Cooper. ltdiver I wasn't suggesting he was - just testing Snow's theory on how hard it is to track down older jumpers. I put his age in because he is at least 10-15 years too young! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Snow was asking about older jumpers finding people. There's a thread in incidents where someone involved was mentioned by name and recocgnised by another jumper as someone he jumped with in 1970. (fyi jumper is in his late 60s.) Some interesting snippets out a wiki article: The training program for pararescue is described, and along with a whole bunch of other stuff includes both SL and freefall training. Freefall training includes 2 night jumps. The Wiki article is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Pararescue Curiously, there is a subheading of "Vietnam conflict" but nothing in it...though the article mentions a number of medals awarded for various actions in SE Asia, and also Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Georger, just because something is not discussed does not mean it is dismissed - I thought the points on biometrics were very valid, but I had nothing to add. (Other than pointing out that if someone argues against comparing a photo to a sketch, they should be consistent in that view and not rely on the Vegas stuff to back them up.) I've already posted that I would be more inclined to trust sketches done just after the incident than those done years later (whether 2 or 10 years - memories do fade and become faulty over time), as well as posting that link to the training forensic artists undergo - which surprised me in how exacting it was. (And yes I did realise the reply was not meant for me, hence the - though it did take me aback at first!) Someone made the point about the nose and it has already been noted the features were quite fine, almost feminine. It was also pointed out Cooper seemed quite slim/thin. In my experience thinner guys often have more "delicate" features and yes I'm sure there are many exceptions but just my 2c worth. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Unless the kicker had also been a smokejumper? This may have been asked and answered before, but what rigs did smokejumpers use in the 60s/early 70s - were they military SL rigs? And was there much difference between SL and freefall rigs (other than the obvious) in those days, or were they like where i did my SL training, where the same training rigs could be packed for either SL or ripcord opening? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.