Orange1

following on the comments above re Soviets, Google books result on GK history - starting with how E European teams won most competitions in the 50s & how Stilwell wanted "to change that". Dunno how to C&P out of Google books either, have a look! http://books.google.co.za/books?id=56MSopnqjycC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=golden+knights+history&source=bl&ots=IGtE2iwQsV&sig=MFzAprKsTIOXr3T99DKQ56k4sMM&hl=en&ei=68mBSvD6I5P-MNiF3JYL&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=golden%20knights%20history&f=false Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

from Wiki: Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

gonna have to go here http://flightability.bizland.com/page2.htm cos when i tried to copy it said "no cyber thiefs allowed" (couldn't tell him i always ref the url.. haha) appears GK were officially recognised as USAPT on June 1 1961. Looks like a fair amount of other fun history on there which i will go read now! Edit: just lots of great photos, go look (esp 377 & Jerry) plus... a link to contact retired GK from the 60s ... Bruce...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

(OK, so I'm answering a post aimed at Jerry but:) Well, Jo, you keep on saying Duane was Cooper without providing a shred of proof that he was. What does that make you, then? No-one else accepts that it is up to anyone to prove that duane wasn't Cooper. Hundreds of millions of other men weren't Cooper either, are we supposed to prove all of them weren't? It is up to you to prove that he was. (Does the US also have the saying, "put up or shut up"?) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Gee Snow, you don't read and remember everything I post either??? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3605972;search_string=golden%20knights;#3605972 ("he" being William Edge) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

OK, everyone else has scotched this. But hmmm if it was the case then it certainly dumps the theory that Cooper asked for $200K because it was the amount insured. Bruce, thanks for doing all this work.. especially grateful that you pursue all leads even if they do not seem to lead back to your own theory on the case. Kudos. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Ah, Snow. Don't blame the robbers, blame the banks?? That leads down a path best not worth mentioning. No cost to society? Hidden, maybe, but there. Cost to taxpayers? Well, if this acts a deterrent, and therefore fewer people rob banks, less policing would be needed and less cost to taxpayers. Do you think a better precedent would be set by allowing anyone to rob a bank? What about bank robbers who harm innocent people? No cost to society in that? I love economics because it applies to everything. I haven't really looked much at it, although I know that part of what won Gary Becker his Nobel prize was looking at the economics of crime. In a quick search, I came across an article and this bit caught my eye -- maybe Cooper and bank robbers are not so dissimilar after all...?: (the bold is mine) from http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/167934487.html On the offchance any of you are interested in Becker's seminal article, from 1968, a copy is here: http://www.ww.uni-magdeburg.de/bizecon/material/becker.1968.pdf Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

If I were a US resident i would be far happier with Carr devoting his time to stuff like this than the Cooper case. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I cant be bothered! Im going out to paint cows. Nothing else left to do! lol - georger, if you re-read my post, you'll see i said it would have been random in this instance bedtime here ... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

They don't. Some jumpers get object fixation and hit the only hazard for miles around. Others don't. (also ref back to Georger's earlier post about pysch vs distributions.) Didn't we discuss that Cooper probably wouldn't have been able to see exactly where he was landing till he hit the ground/river/tree whatever? i.e. if he did land in a river it was more likely a random accident than object fixation (which is what i think 377 was tring to get at with his post about parachutes attracting hazards). edit for Georger: also meant to say - you cannot always divorce pyschology from "distribution"

Sorry Snow you posted SO much stuff.. and i just didn't have time to go through every single thing. You would also have found a Ted Braden serving in WW2 in Africa but I am assuming that is not the same guy. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

?? same guy?? http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1962/1962%20-%202208.html 1962: "Scottish Parachuting A US Army parachutist, Allan Tyre, won the Scottish Open Championships at Perth on September 15. Runner-up was Sgt Ted Braden, also of the US Army; and third place went to Dr Charles Robertson, president of the Scottish Parachute Club." Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Thanks Bruce - we appreciate the efforts! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes, but you left mock-ups out of your list Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Modern-day mercenaries in Africa. I haven't read it yet, but I plan to. http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/displayProductDetails.do?sku=6353972 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

uh-oh... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Fascinating guy. (Yes I am a bit slow catching up on all the reading you have provided us with, Snow!) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Snow, tie this in with your "obvious" suspects being investigated...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Glad to see you havent ceded your Jo duties completely to me Orange. I don't know why I do it, but I continue to search for evidence of California state prison inmate smoke jumpers because Jo swears she saw a photo of some along with a short article/caption. So far nothing and quite a bit of contrary evidence, though no definitive proof either way. The mysterious disappearance of photo evidence seems to be a common theme in Jo's search for the truth. 377 I found exactly one match in a google search for prison smokejumpers: a movie made with that as the theme. I wonder if the photo wasn't a still from he movie...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, I (and everyone else on this board) knows full well that the US government has in the past covered things up. The possible difference with Braden is that we KNOW for a fact he was involved in stuff that was secret at the time. We have said to you all along - show us proof. (not wild accusations that every 'relevant' picture of RFK has suddenly disappeared from the public domain.) fwiw, my gut feel re Braden is that if there was anything worth covering up it would have come to light by now - as other things have. but i am trying to keep an open mind. the second you can present us with a shred of evidence that remotely puts duane anywhere near that plane that night, open minds will turn back to you. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

if the DNA on the tie is too contaminated then why should the supposed pollen spores not be? hey, anyone know a Kennedy prepared to volunteer DNA to compare to the tie...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

No-one with a conscience becomes a mercenary. As for what he knew - if they wanted to keep SOG secret at the time, wouldn't that be enough? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I'm surprised, Snow. I don't know exactly what you studied but presume sciences. Mathematics and Philosophy have always seemed to me like wonderful subjects to study in tandem. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes Braden was obvious. I don't have the Ramparts article yet. I just got a notice that it's being shipped. I'll know more when I get it. The CIA were the guys that picked him up in Africa, and put him in solitary for 123 days at Fort Dix. They interrogated him, on who he talked to, the possibility of foreign agents etc. The CIA clearly had files on Braden. The FBI, if they contacted other agencies, with respect to 727, jumping, Vietnam, would have gotten the Braden data from the CIA. The CIA and FBI jointly buried the information. The public didn't know about MACV-SOG then. (because the government hid it). The CIA and FBI did, and then knew about Braden. But then - if they buried it then - isn't there a possibility Braden was guilty and they let him go because they didn't want the MACV-SOG stuff made public? Also... you did say IF the FBI contacted other agencies. Do you know for a fact they did, or is that an assumption? p.s. I hadn't reached the coffee post when i answered that Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Easy: you said Starbucks, I said no Starbucks, you didn't ask about other chains! Seattle has been in SA for years, and has many more branches all over the country than Vida. But - honestly - it isn't as nearly good as Vida. Can we get those dollars now please? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.