FallingOsh

Are you attempting to quote scripture? The Bible doesn't say you get into heaven by good deeds. Ayers set off bombs on American soil. He's not only unrepentant, but wishes he had done more damage. Explain to me how you're relating that to Christianity again? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

More importantly, did it sway the undecided voters? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

That sounded differently in my head. I meant, It's a fact ACORN did this. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

So now it's the republicans fault, again. ACORN is a left learning group pressuring people to register multiple times. The guys in those interviews were not exactly the type to mastermind a voting scheme and both said the ACORN rep guilted them into it. Bill. Really? There's no argument that ACORN did this. Comparing an event in 471BC to ACORN as a defense is just plain rediculous. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

And who says liberals are condescending elitists? I sure hope my poor little

Read the article. McCain had already led the charge in favor of the Military Commissions Act. When we passed the Military Commissions Act, we said that the C.I.A. should have the ability to use additional techniques,” Mr. McCain told reporters Friday in Oshkosh, Wis. “None of those techniques would entail violating the Detainee Treatment Act, which said that cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment are prohibited.” And here's his take on waterboarding. Staging a mock execution by inducing the misperception of drowning is a clear violation of this standard,” Mr. McCain said in the statement. “Indeed, during the negotiations, we were personally assured by administration officials that this language, which applies to all agencies of the U.S. government, prohibited waterboarding.” He voted against the new bill because he didn't believe the Army manual had substantial interrogation techniques. I don't agree with torture. I think the Geneva Convention (though we're the only ones following them in most cases) is what defines us as the good guy. While animals over there are cutting peoples' heads off, we're fattening them up in detainment. Torture would lower us to their level. HOWEVER, interrogation does not equal torture. Waterboarding is used on our own troops for training. Interrogations are performed on our own troops for training. If you think hostile interrogations or the occassional waterboard are torture then you should read a book on what really happen to the prisoners in Hanoi. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I wasn't talking about torture. I was talking about your subject line. You intentionally made it sound as bad as possible. How about "Another old argument that has been discussed over and over for years and nothing new has surface." McCain has always been against torture for obvious reasons. He's even against waterboarding. The problem is that you equate any interrogation with torture. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Good point. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Joe Blow Voter doesn't register over and over and over and over. ACORN is not just standing by, innocently collecting forms and dutifully turning them in. They have been convincing people that singing up multiple times is somehow helping. I saw an interview with two people last night. One said he told them no, but the ACORN rep said that if he signed more then he's be helping people. So he signed up like 8 more times. The next interview was with a guy who was convinced to sign up 73 times. 73! You think anyone would register to vote 73 times on their own? You're right. Voter registration fraud does not [yet] equal voter fraud. But, that's like saying getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar doesn't mean you were actually going to take the cookie. AND THEN... people are trying to spin it as a right wing conspiracy and McCain is guilty. You've gotta be shittin me. A left leaning organization is caught organizing voter registraion fraud and it's the republican's fault. rediculous -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

All true. My argument was that the bill isn't welfare. There's a plan to recoup with a possible profit. Whether they do that or not is up in the air. There is no plan, never was, never will be, to get anything back from welfare. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

You have the right to buy a plane ticket which, in turn, uses all of those agencies. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Ugh. Waterboarding has been discussed as an interrogation technique ad nauseum. Wonderfully inflamatory subject line, though. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Social Security is neither welfare nor public assistance. Do try to focus. I just listed the top ones from that site. I'm not even in the argument yet, just did the research for you. Even so, the other three make up roughly 30%. I'd call that a tax burder. Do try and answer a question without a one line snide remark. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Right. The homeless are the only ones who don't pay taxes. This is the exact mindset that causes the problem. You only see three people. The rich, the middle-class, and the homeless. I'll try the numbers again. Those seem to be like kryptonite. The lower 50% pay 3%. The lower 95% pay 43%. Here's a profound statement: the lower 95% of our population are not homeless. I know you go where the money is. I know that the progressive tax schedule isn't anything new. The question is why make it worse? Why push it even further to fund government programs and hand outs to the lower 50%? The upper 1% pays 37%. How high do you suggest that go in order to be fair? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'll go with the basic definitions. The government gets nothing for handing out welfare. Not a damn thing. It's a straight give away. The bill gives the government a right to buy up bad debt and invest in major banks. That means the govenment gets something in return. Hence the argument about America becoming socialist. The plan is to eventually sell everything back after the market recovers, possibly for a profit. Whether or not that will actually happen remains to be seen, but that's the plan. Vastly different than welfare even in it's basic definition. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Social security, 20.77% Medicare, 13.16% Medicaid & state children's health insurance 7.23% Unemployment/welfare 11.61% Source. I don't feel like looking up a second, but these look about right. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

If you truly believe that, and it wasn't just a pop-off remark, then you really have no idea what's going on with that bill. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

How much should the lower 50% pay to live in a country that provides government programs for them to live off of? You're still making the argument that only the successful should pay. Only the succuessful should pay for living in a land of opportunity. Everyone else doesn't have to pay "dues," as you put it. You scream life should be fair while preaching inequality. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

kinda cynical -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

So the voter registration fraud isn't a big deal? It should not be condemned? I used to like my friend's dog. Then the little fucker bit me. I don't like it now. Am I a flip flopper? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Every market in the world took a dump. This whole deal just proves how interconnected the world is now days. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Give up the money and quit your job. Spoken like a true liberal. Who's going to fund your national healthcare if the wealthy quit their jobs and lose their money? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

kinda shoots a hole in the nationalized health care plan. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

The more successful you are, the higher tax bracket you're in. Uh, no. We implies everyone. Not everyone pays the same percentage. The lower 50% only pays 3% of the total tax. Millions don't pay anything at all. Your "dues" are only paid by those who are successful enough to be in the higher tax brackets. Aren't you arguing in another thread about equality? How is pushing all of the "dues" on the successful fair? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I thought that video was really interesting. Obama's tax plan gets shot at quite a bit because he's wanting the "rich" to pay more and the "middle class" to pay less. Then you have this plumber, who pretty much defines blue collar middle class, questioning why his success should be punished. It's interesting because even those who stand to initially benefit are questioning what motivation they would have to grow a business past $250k in revenue. Anytime the 'tax the rich' plan is brought up, someone argues that the corrupt CEOs are making hundreds of millions. 'Tax the corrupt CEOs and give it back to the people.' It's not just the CEOs, its guys like this plumber. Guys trying to push their small business past $250k only to be punished. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.