FallingOsh

Keep drinking the kool-aid or the boss will get mad. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

No, they don't. They purchase equiment and goods and you somehow equate that to hand outs. They get nothing in return for purging billions into failing companies... except they can mandate things like salary caps apparently. No, those are the parts of government spending you support. The bailout is being sold to us as the only way to rescue the economy. Healthcare research wouldn't save the economy any more than repaving every road in the country would. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

How is this going to help the economy ? I vote Washington doesn't upgrade its cars to eco-friendly. The resulting pollution will further melt the ice caps eliminating the need for an icebreaker. I just saved the country almost $500million. You're welcome. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I care what it's called because that's not what the country was founded on. No one needs to belly up to the bar. They need to go the fuck home and quit trying to micro manage the economy with salary caps and a trillion dollars worth of pork spread out over three years. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Horseshit. You're using the slippery slope arguement. Having a national defense doesn't justify the government handing out cash and nationalizing private companies. Not ours. The government buying up companies is moving in that direction. It's not capitalism. It's not. The exact opposite. People game the system more when the government is willing to hand out money. Roads and firetrucks don't justify the government buying civilian companies or sinking a trillion at a time into the economy. We're a capitalistic society with a very small touch of socialism (in your words anyway). We're not communists with a touch of capitalism. National defense, public safety... ok. Buying stocks, capping salaries, rebate checks... completely and totally different. That argument is based on the fact that the government buys products. It pays money to a company. The company gives them a product to use. The government uses it. Buying stocks to prop up failing companies is, again, completely different. I buy shit from companies all the time. I don't write them a check when they're struggling just because. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

In a capitalist system, the government doesn't hand out cash and buy shares in civilian companies. Saying we need limitations for government handouts because people in a "capitalist" society game the system is a giant oxymoron. The capitalist society shouldn't get the money in the first place. People in any society try to game the system. In socialistic handouts, they don't even have to try. The government just hands them cash. Nothing about that is capitalistic. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

***But if, hypothetically, salary caps were in place (not arguing pro or con here), that would probably level things more so that teams owned by the Steinbrenners of the world weren't always the perpetual champions. com·mu·nism n. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members. Communism A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Likewise, CEO's doing well at good companies aren't typically looking to leave. Especially to move to a company that is failing and only pays a fraction of their current paycheck. That assumes you're only making $800,000. What if you were pulling $50mil a year? Would you still leave for $10.5 over 4 years? Forbes.com listed the top 20 CEO salaries for 2007-2008. If you took the lowest paid of those 20, the bonus at the end of 4 years would have to be over $210M just to match. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

It's possible that the reason the general masses like the rule is that it's actually a good idea. It's more likely that the general masses haven't put much thought into what it means. Kelpdiver did a pretty good job of explaining it. What caliber CEO is going to take on a drowning company with a salary cap? The top quality execs will go to good companies who are willing to pay big bucks. It's like a court appointed defense attorney. Probably not the best representation. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

There's no way to handout billions of dollars to private companies and keep track of every dollar. It's the same thing that happens with welfare. It'll be the same thing if healthcare is taken over. There will always be people who take advantage of the system. It's idealistic to think otherwise. Detailed accountability is impossible; one of the many reasons I don't believe in handouts. Maybe people will start to realize that. True, but they're not the only ones to blame. The mindset that everyone deserves whatever they want is wrong. The government put pressure on banks to lend so everyone could have a home. Of course the banks didn't have to do it, but they weren't alone in the decision. There will always be someone who can't afford what others have. Extending government programs or approving loans in order to bring people up, just drags the rest of us down. Yep, that was a huge fuck up by Bush. Now, as we obviously haven't learned our lesson, The new administration will do the same thing. After that monumental waste of money is passed, the finger pointing at Bush alone won't cut it. Chuck -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Good points. I have an idea. How about we just stop nationalizing companies? Then we won't have people pissed that their tax money is being wasted on CEO salaries and lavish exec vacations. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Thats what happens when you shine a light on roaches... they go scurrying for cover. The trip is an anual award for it's top bankers, not a retreat for execs like AIG pulled. Employees (not bosses) earned that trip by making sales. Wells Fargo suggested that canceling the event would cost about as much as holding it. "Late last year, we canceled recognition events for 2009 except those where the financial commitment was so great that no meaningful savings would occur by canceling these events," the company said in a statement. So they cancelled all other recognition events on their own. Cancelling this one is going to cost just as much a going. So... employees aren't rewarded and they pay the same amount anyway. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Agreed. Nice has nothing to do with it. The bailout money was not used to reward execs. That trip is taken every year. It's not a pat on the back. The money was used to help with the Wachovia takeover that got Wachovia off the government's back. Further, as previously stated, dividends are being paid. Wells didn't take the money and flush it down the toilet like so many other banks. Completely agree. I just saw an up-date to the Wells Fargo 'junket' story. It appears that, Wells Fargo has cancelled their Vegas 'fling'. Chuck That doesn't surprise me one bit. It'll keep them out of any further negative media attention. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'd rather give a taxpayer handout to a homeless person than to any bank exec right now. True. I'd rather not give any handouts, but I agree with you. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Given that it's a British magazine looking in from the outside, how do you make it out to be "one side"? The comments about Limbaugh, Hannity and Coulter are right on. Because there were no comments about Olbermann or Maddow being equally hard headed and mind-numbingly paritsan. Pointing fingers at only conservatives pretty much defines one sided. The liberals love circle jerking themselves into thinking their ideas are the only correct ones. Anyone who disagrees is regarded as a simpleton. I find it funny/ironic that he claims conservatives are idiots while the British people protest in the streets to regain rights. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Agreed. Nice has nothing to do with it. The bailout money was not used to reward execs. That trip is taken every year. It's not a pat on the back. The money was used to help with the Wachovia takeover that got Wachovia off the government's back. Further, as previously stated, dividends are being paid. Wells didn't take the money and flush it down the toilet like so many other banks. Completely agree. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

"Forced" (intentionally in quotations) as in they were told that if the TARP was refused then no additional help would be available to them in the future. I just read that in the article. I don't know about any further coersion. I agree that kind of money is awefully tempting, especially when they just took over Wachovia. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I have been shown..... up close and personal. I also call it as I see it.... and I am still seeing it. What if someone has seen and experience things that makes them a biggot. Does that make it ok? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Read my next post. They were "forced" and are already making payments back. There are plenty of rediculous criminals out there flushing the TARP fund down the drain. Wells isn't one of them. Maybe instead of getting pissed about how people spend handouts, we should stop handing it out. If you think people will always act responsibly when given a wad of cash, you're kidding yourself. The concept of resposibly spending free money is idealistic. It seems people are finally starting to realize that. According to Gallup, there's less support for the package every week. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Edited because I think this is a better answer. I've read several articles saying they were forced. The majority of the money they accepted is helping absorb the costs of the Wachovia takeover, which Wells agreed to in order take them off the government's back. They're also issuing their first dividends back to the government. (It makes me want to puke thinking about a civilian company paying dividends to the fed.) If they didn't want the money in the first place, are absorbing a failed bank, and paying the money back... I have no problem with them heading to Vegas. Wells is one of the few banks doing ok, despite recording hefty losses in Q4. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Wells Fargo never needed the bailout money. They've never been in trouble and aren't using the bailout for vacations. Edited: I agree with the rest of your post. Any company fighting off bankruptcy with government funds while wasting millions on retreats should be strung up. The lack of oversight in the last stumulus is disgusting but predictable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

+2 I wish I were better at putting my thoughts and intent into words. Edited because I'm not good at putting my thoughts and intent into words. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Bill, it doesn't work. It didn't work last century, it didn't work last year, it's not going to work now. The last estimate I read put 5% of the stimulus on public works projects. Even if it did work (which it doesn't) that's not enough to create millions of jobs building bridges and roads. Promises of anything from Washington don't mean shit. Promises of money will mean even less. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

It didn't work last time because people put that money in savings or towards debt. It didn't work in the new deal when the money was actually delivered vs. just a promise. That right there is reason enough to be against the entire thing... even if history hadn't proved it'll fail. Here's a fun fact; if you spent $1M a day beginning at Christ's birth, you still would not have reached the cost of the stimulus package. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Assuming the economy did recover in that time... with so little of the money coming out in the next 12 months, even that argument would be widely debated and probably discredited. It's a no-win situation. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.