FallingOsh

You don't use the rules of the tax code to reduce or eliminate your taxes? I'll bet when your tax returns are being filled out, you are looking for every thing you can deduct. Speaking of hypocrisy. Yes, but... but... the rich are only paying billions every year.... and... they're ungrateful... and they aren't paying enough cause more people need checks in the mail... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

The rich are the only ones to blame for tilting the table? How about paying people to sit on their asses; do you think that has anything to do with people continuing to sit on their asses? Fine. Tax everyone so nobody is left out. ***(However, it is an error to say that despite having a tiny fraction of the wealth that they don't "pay into that system". There are more taxes than just the income tax.} True. Sales tax is applied to everyone. Apply income tax to everyone. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

The only rich people I object to are those that whine about paying taxes. Rich people who whine about their taxes are just hypocritical ungrateful jerks. As opposed to the people who get free money in the mail complaining that it isn't enough? Imagine that... someone paying a third of their income in taxes being upset...those ungrateful jerks... Unbelievable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'm sorry. You may have misunderstood me. I think they have almost nothing in common. I'm just wondering why the guy is getting hammered by the right for trying to do something constructive like secure nuclear material and reduce the number of weapons. I would add a few question marks to the end of the thread title, but it's too late to edit it. FYI, I consider myself a member of the right and I think this is one of the few things he's done that I can agree with. Surprise, surprise... the point you were making flew completely over his head. He couldn't possibly let anyone compare Obama to a republican, even if the overall point was taking a stab at the right. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Agreed. Threads like this and posters like those just make me more happy to be on the other side. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

And what service is provided by funneling tax dollars to checks in the mail for 40% of the population. You really think most of that 47% gets government checks? Not likely. Reduce that even more by retirees who get SS. No. I said 40%. Up nearly double from the 80's. Well, what a SURPRISE that is. The income disparity and the wealth disparity has also changed since the 1980s - the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. In 1980 the lowest income quintile made 28% of what the upper quintile made. By 2001 that had dropped to 20% (source US Treasury). According to Pickety-Saez, “In 2007, the percent of total income received by the top 10% of families was 49.74%, or effectively one-half of the nation’s total. This compares to 1980, when the top 10% received 34.63%, or about one-third of all income.” Thanks. Noted. Is that supposed to make me feel it's ok for 40% to receive checks in the mail for nothing? No, I don't care how you FEEL about it. It explains your previous comment about the number needing govt. help increasing since the '80s. As income and wealth shift even further away from the lower segment, more of them will need help. "Need" help. 40% of the population "needs" free government money once a year.... Nice. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

And what service is provided by funneling tax dollars to checks in the mail for 40% of the population. You really think most of that 47% gets government checks? Not likely. Reduce that even more by retirees who get SS. No. I said 40%. Up nearly double from the 80's. Well, what a SURPRISE that is. The income disparity and the wealth disparity has also changed since the 1980s - the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. In 1980 the lowest income quintile made 28% of what the upper quintile made. By 2001 that had dropped to 20% (source US Treasury). According to Pickety-Saez, “In 2007, the percent of total income received by the top 10% of families was 49.74%, or effectively one-half of the nation’s total. This compares to 1980, when the top 10% received 34.63%, or about one-third of all income.” Thanks. Noted. Is that supposed to make me feel it's ok for 40% to receive checks in the mail for nothing? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

And what service is provided by funneling tax dollars to checks in the mail for 40% of the population. You really think most of that 47% gets government checks? Not likely. Reduce that even more by retirees who get SS. No. I said 40%. Up nearly double from the 80's. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

you seem to find it easy

And what service is provided by funneling tax dollars to checks in the mail for 40% of the population. You think checks in the mail is a good use of money? That's quite an assumption. I find it funny the very people who tout the "SUPPORT THE POOR" would rather just tax someone else to pay for it and call it a day. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

fixie. I wonder how much we subsidized them last year. Exxon pays billions in taxes every year.... although thinkprogress is usually such a reliable source, I would suggest reading a little further. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

you seem to find it easy

Not really. Pretty much proves my point exactly. Liberals equate paying taxes to caring. When have you ever written a check to the government saying "For good objectives only?" Paying your federally mandated taxes does not mean it goes towards a good objective and it certainly doesn't mean you care about the poor. It means you paid your taxes; that's it. Then people have the audacity to bitch and wine because the wealthy aren't contributing more to the 40% of the population getting a check in the mail for free. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

What's more telling is the amount of people who instantly jump in to defend the practice. Some of them, if not all, will continue further and bitch that they don't get more. Of course they aren't willing to give any themselves. They'll just insist that other's pay more in taxes. See... liberals equate supporting government handouts to actually caring. Ask one of them how many checks they've written or hours they've spent at a food kitchen. Voting for the wealthy to pay more in taxes helps them sleep better. Sad really. What's more telling is the amount of people who instantly jump in to defend the practice of using sophisticated tax shelters to avoid paying taxes that "ordinary" slobs pay because, well, said slobs just don't have the kind of loot to be able to ante into the big boys' game. Some of them, if not all, will continue further and bitch that they don't get even more exemptions and shelters that are simply out of the question for the average middle class family trying to keep their home and get their kids through state college. Of course, they won't offer to pay any more taxes themselves, or to give up their loss-on-investment exemptions. See, right-wingers - and of course all conservatives must be painted with a broad, derisive brush - equate the social infrastructure, like roads, police, public education, firefighters, public health inspectors, air traffic control, etc., as something to be paid for with other people's taxes, but certainly not their own, if they can avoid it. Ask one of them how many checks they've written or hours they've spent at a food kitchen. Voting for lower middle class people who don't have employer-based health insurance to not have a unified health care system like every other country does, while voting themselves even more tax cuts, helps them sleep better. Sad, really. Thanks. Point proven. The rich don't pay enough to make you happy so they're evil. They're evil for wanting to keep their own money. You somehow feel like you care about the poor because you want them to pay more. The billions of dollars they shell out in taxes every year isn't enough for you and your deficit led handouts. Demonizing the wealthy seems so much easier than actually working to fix the problem. And every other country has a healthcare plan now? Seems like I've touched a nerve. Calm down. There's no reason to get upset. Just keep blaming the country's problems on the wealthy and maybe we'll get somewhere. Keep bitching that their billions aren't enough. I'm sure the budget will balance itself and then each and every one one of us can have checks arrive in the mail along with our free quality healthcare. It's so easy to complain that other people aren't doing enough for your agendas, isn't it? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

*** [\(read under the military section, satirical yet so true, laughed my ass off reading this shit). Peace. Encyclopedia dramatica? Did you live under power lines as a kid? -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

What's more telling is the amount of people who instantly jump in to defend the practice. Some of them, if not all, will continue further and bitch that they don't get more. Of course they aren't willing to give any themselves. They'll just insist that other's pay more in taxes. See... liberals equate supporting government handouts to actually caring. Ask one of them how many checks they've written or hours they've spent at a food kitchen. Voting for the wealthy to pay more in taxes helps them sleep better. Sad really. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Cute. If the kid is already burned then not playing with fire in the future won't take his old burns away. Arguing that the wars cost money in the past so we should spend money on the healthcare bill now is assanine. Typical... but assanine. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Stopping every dime wouldn't fund the healthcare bill. It wouldn't even balance the current budget. And you equate stopping the wars to providing healthcare. We can't afford the wars. We can't afford healthcare. Stopping the wars doesn't change the fact we can't afford healthcare. Probably the people who fly them. Who gives a shit if you can't afford your healthcare? Try thinking a little bit further down the road than right in front of your face. Our military equipment is decades old and falling apart. Other countries are developing new technology and will continue to build their militaries. Just because we've had aircraft superiourity in the past doesn't mean that will just remain the standard without any additional effort. Um... yes. Some countries have planes just as capable as our primary jets. You think just because the Congo doesn't have a strong fighter force that we need to live with antiquated technology? Do Honduras and Bosnia have quality government run healthcare? That's a pretty low standard... but again, just more hyperbole. The order for the F-22 (the end-be all replacement) went from over 700 to somewhere around 120... and it took roughly 20 years to bring online. Congress cut it again last year. Why? Because it's the standard democrat answer.... cut the military budget... and guess what... it didn't do shit to prevent a $1.5T deficit. The left just gets a woody talking about how to fund the entire fucking country if only we could cut military spending. It's bullshit, it's left-wing fantasy, and it doesn't work. Any 6 year old with pencil can do the math. More hyperbole. How much would we save by cutting every one of those programs? How much would it reduce the deficit in order to pay for healthcare? I didn't say it was inferior. I said the jets are 30+ years old and falling out of the sky. You imply you would be fine letting it slip into inferiority. Exactly... you have no real answer. How much would it save and how much of that would you use to reduce the deficit? Would you reduce the deficit or just funnel to other projects we can't afford? If you would just funnel it to other projects and keep the deficit, then why even worry about cutting military spending? Again, you have nothing. The DoD budget was $660B ish. Shutting off every program and every door associated with the DoD wouldn't reduce the deficit by half. Not surprising you refuse to address that point. No you didn't. You don't even know how much money would be saved by your "proposal." It's just a knee jerk reaction. "Cut the military budget." Taking care of Americans. "But other people do it" is a child's way of asking for a cookie before dinner. If that is your 'good example' then I think we're done here. Only a democrat would consider a $1T a year deficit saving money. Feel free to look elsewhere because right now you're just spouting standard left wing crap. You think you're looking elsewhere for an idea by saying cut the military budget.... very original. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

I'm pretty sure nobody is denying the fact he won. I know you're intentionally being difficult because you aren't this dense. He wasn't throwing his hands up on election night with pride saying "I won." He said "I won" in a situation to intentionally sound like "Shut the fuck up. I do what I want." -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Defeating Germany in WWII was a team effort. True. So was defeating Japan. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Don't kid yourself. No-one has ever brought peace to the world. Wow. Downplaying America's role in ending WWII... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

So stopping the wars won't actually save much money? Kinda hurts your argument for funding the healthcare bill. It's a counter to the original bullshit argument. Bringing the cost of the military and the wars into question when defending the healthcare bill is a red herring. The money we've already spent cannot pay for a new bill. Not being able to afford the DOD budget does not justify a new spending bill. Propose something rather than spew hyperbole. Our current inventory of aircraft is 30, 40, or in some cases 50 years old. Some airframes are literally falling out of the sky. How much "stop the bleeding" do you want to do and still have a military that runs? Which bases will you close, how much will that save, and why did you choose those bases? I'm guessing you don't have an answer because, again, gutting the military is just a standard left excuse for increasing government spending. You have no real answer or proposal. Really, James Bond? How much do we spend on covert military operation? Do you plan to just take all that money and apply it directly to new spending or would you use it decrease the current deficit? So you don't give a shit about the deficit. You only want to refunnel the military budget to different spending programs. If you don't care about the deficit, then why do you have a hard on for gutting the military budget? The government is just printing money and increasing the deficit so why kill the military for a healthcare bill that we couldn't afford anyway. neither would the healthcare bill. Dozens of other countries don't do it either. Dozens of countries do lots of things we do and don't do. Again, it's not an excuse, justification, or proposal for how to make it work here. It's a dellusion. The 2010 budget for the entire DoD was about $660B. If you completely closed the DoD entirely, it would still leave this country with a nearly $1T deficit. You wanting to gut the military has absolutely nothing to do with funding more spending or reducing the deficit. It's just a personal opinion with zero basis in reality. What's your solution exactly? Shutting down the entire Department of Defense won't even cover half the current deficit and you think closing overseas bases will fund the entire healthcare bill. On this we agree. Something has to change and crap suggestions like shutting down the military doesn't get us anywhere. Figure out a plausible way to do it without saying things like "other people do it" and maybe you'll get somewhere. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

My point exactly. The typical left answer to solve all of our problems.... reduce the military. A) The total cost of both wars since they started is less than the proposed cost of this bill. B) You can't recoup that money to pay for anything. The money is gone. We couldn't afford the wars. We can't afford the bill. Not affording one does not mean you can afford another. dozens of countries around the world are doing lots of things. that doesn't mean any of them will work in our society in accordance with our laws. again, it's a popular left argument, but "well.. they're doing it" doesn't come close to explaining how we will fund, implement, or sustain the bill. Like Russia warning us not to take their path? Or the Canandians moving towards a more capitalist system? I assume you mean we should only learn from the ones you agree with... -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Which part of jumping out of planes (presuming this is gravity) has changed in the past few centuries? A lot of science is in fact settled. It could be reopened if it fails to predict (hello GW debaters!) accurately. Now if you want to talk about the GPS units that some may over rely on for jump operations, there you will see some corrections to Newton's Laws due to relativistic concerns. But falling out the door? Pretty straightforward stuff. I think this was exactly his point. The theories of gravity are actually being called into question lately. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.

Simple to say, sure. Aside from the fact it can't be paid for, implemented, or sustained. The people writing and voting on the bill don't even understand it. The problem is that dems don't understand health care, education, food, and jobs don't just appear out of thin air when you sign a piece of paper in Washington. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life.