jgoose71

I didn't see community service in your list. BIG fines + community service for white collar crime. These are not violent people who need to be locked away at our expense. Prison should be reserved for people who present a real danger to the community. Sorry I missed community service. But I am also of the mind set that Wall Street executives should get Double lashings. When you screw with the economy, the effects go far and beyond..... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

I voted for "whips and chains excite me." Is that unusual for a republican? "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

you do in Canada, federal and provincial prisons in Canada are called Club Fed Yes, but does Canada have any real criminals? I thought they were all to stoned to hardly get out of the house..... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

I'll bet that's not the answer he was expecting...... I like to think of it as this conversation - lefties - you guys cut military rightes - you guys cut entitlements L - fine, but YOU first R - no way, I'm not falling for that again - YOU go first L - no, you first R - no, you first L - no, you first R - no, you first L - no, you first R - no, you first L - no, you first R - no, you first L - no, you first R - no, you first Finally - military cuts - called the bluff let's see how it plays out in real life now...... +1 That was the answer I was hoping for and the answer any normal emotionally stable person would give in the current circumstances. But we are not dealing with normal, emotionally stable people. In real life we have to deal with congress. As you said, we'll see how it plays out. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Also, if anyone can think of other things that might be traded for jail time, please feel free to mention it. Thinking of solutions isn't nearly as fun a bitching about problems, but someone has to do it....

Inspired by kallend's Thread..... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4263812;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread For Minor offenses, like possession of Marijuana or public intoxication reduce them to a fine. For more serious misdemeanors, like maybe trespassing, larceny (under a dollar amount), vandalism etc, bust out the whip. Only incarcerate serious felons. Maybe even give them the option to trade jail time for lashes (depending on Offense). Think of all the room we may be able to open up in the prisons if we traded jail time for something else. While we are at it, add more victim reparations (can also be exchanged for jail time), and if you get hurt while committing a crime (shot while committing armed robbery), oh well. I was thinking of Singapore as a model. Does everyone remember this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay In exchange for corporal punishment, I'm sure we could get rid of the death penalty. For Criminals: 1) Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. 2) Prison is punishment. You don't get a private suit, champagne and caviar. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

I agree and disagree. Getting rid of tax breaks and closing loopholes while lowering the overall tax rate is the end goal of flat taxes. The Republicans were campaigning heavily on a flat tax plan when Herman Cain was running, and now they all have one in their back pocket. If they actually pass a viable flat tax plan, I would let some of this slide. Well, they have put more effort into it than the Democrats. While I agree that they could try harder, it's not even in the Democrat Vocabulary. Do you remember Ron Paul's plan to balance the budget? Do you remember him saying that his plans will not effect anyone over the age of 55? Then the Democrats, rather than using his plan as a starting point ran the add of him pushing grandma off a cliff? Some Idea's do come out of the house republicans, but they keep getting shot down, or Harry Reid sits on them. I can't find the exact number but as of right now I think the Senate is sitting on 4 proposals from the house. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Your twisting my words. I never said we can't cut from the defense budget, I just don't want ALL the cuts to come from defense. Nor should they. We will never balance the budget with just defense cuts. But now that defense cuts are coming, what left wing pet projects or entitlement programs would you be willing to put some cuts on? "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Problem - the President cannot cut military spending. Only Congress can. The House is controlled by the GOP. This is not something I'm willing to put on the POTUS. This is an implementation of the military vision enunciated 10 or 15 years ago. Yes, but after the house generates a budget, the senate has to pass it, and then it gets pushed to the president. Harry Reid has sat on every budget passed to him from the current house. Obama has said he would veto it. The special "debt commission" that was put together came up with numbers that cut across the board that democrats balked at because it took a bite out of their "their" programs. When was the last time an actual budget was passed again? I forget how long congress has been kicking the can down the road with extensions and temporary funding..... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Which is a good idea, however, if we pulled out, every oil tanker coming through the North Arabian Gulf would get hijacked. The Somalis would love it. They could make BILLIONS!!!! Plus, we still need that oil, especially when projects like the keystone pipeline keep getting shot down. Once again, novel idea, but scores low on the practicality scale. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Because military spending is discretionary. It's far easier to cut the Defense budget than it is to cut an entitlement. Secondly - there are far more people ON entitlements than in the military. Plenty of people have paid into the entitlements (Medicare and Social Security) with the expectation of receiving the benefits (like all Ponzi scheme participants do). And those on Welfare, well, they are on welfare and how does one just cut off all they have? Nobody has the balls to commit political suicide and do it. Agreed, most of the war time spending is discretionary. And there is a lot of spending cuts that will happen automatically with the withdraw from Iraq and the down sizing of all said task forces in the region. I'm not upset at the cuts to the military. It's to be expected. It pisses me off though that the only cuts are coming from the military. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Yes we agree on that. Every program can be justified in one way or another. Yes, we need to make deep cuts to our beloved programs. Your missing my point though. Why is the military being singled out? If you said, "because their is a Democrat in office and he's not going to cut his programs," I could respect that. Just saying that all programs can be justified, doesn't explain the singling out of anything. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

You say this like there is something we can do to get them to stop kidnapping people. *News flash* There isn't. It's how they make money. It's nothing personal, it's just business in a corrupt country. And the corruption in their county isn't going to end any time soon. You have a vary naive view of the situation. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

So using that logic, we are justified in kidnapping Somalis for ransom? "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

I know the Military wastes a lot of money. Being in the military I can't tell you how much money I've seen flushed down the toilet. It's the same for all of government. Especially at the end of September. It just chaps my ass knowing that there are other area's, like Medicare and Social Security that need overhauling also. Yet if a budget doesn't get passed, the automatic cuts were were pretty much solely military. When the military is out killing Bin Laden, rescuing hostages, and saving Iranian Sailors, how do you justify targeting them only for government cuts? "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

I put the odds on Somalis taking care of Somali pirates the same as Obama balancing the budget. Actually, the same as Obama passing a budget...... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

But hey, not to worry, gov't employees will get a small pay raise... Jan. 6 (Bloomberg) -- President Barack Obama will propose a 0.5 percent pay increase for civilian federal employees in his fiscal 2013 budget, according to an administration official. No, that's money saved because it's not the full pay raise according to the inflation index that government employee's receive every year. Obama will take the usual pay raise difference and add it to his "money cut" pile. You know, the "instead of $500 billion in new spending, I only added $400 billion in new spending, so I cut the deficit by $100 billion" thing he brags about. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Yep, it's a good start. Hopefully we can balance the budget with only military cuts. Next time someone get kidnapped by Somali pirates, they can rescue them selves....... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

I can agree to that. But this is SC. I think we should have given them cookies. What? Like slightly over cooked oatmeal cookies? you hard ass. If you would have said fruit cake I would have had to ask you about whether or not you support torture.... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

This made me curious, so I read them both. Just finished. The Brits' one was harder to figger out. 2 questions to ask: If you were to ask a brit, do you think he would say ours is harder to figure out? I mean, you were able to read their code and figure it out in an afternoon...... And have you figured out what Obama care is going to do to our taxes over the next couple of years? Its over 2000 pages. Could you figure that out in an afternoon? "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

You've done a side by side comparison, have you? I don't know much about financial red-tape in Kiwi-land, but I do know that it has a comprehensive public healthcare system, just like the Scandinavians. I also know that if you were paying scandinavian levels of taxation you'd be screaming blue murder about strangulation of private enterprise and the economy. Be careful who you decide the US should be more like... never said I wanted to be like them, just making a comparison..... Do you think any of the Scandinavian countries have passed any bills that are 2,000+ pages lately where there elected officials told them "We got to pass it to see what's in it?" So you think the Scandinavian countries have a better idea of what there taxes are going to be next year? Do I want what they got? No. But speaking frankly, right now I would much rather look like Sweden than Greece. I'm sure The the UK's tax codes right now are a little easier to understand than ours. If things keep going like this, I'm sure we will start seeing black markets emerge in the U.S. real soon. I already know a bunch of people that sneak across the borders to Canada and Mexico to pick up there meds..... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

This has now become an unending series of taxes... When was the last time the government did anything good for a business that didn't have a lobbyist? Or gave a "campaign contribution?" You do realize that the reason Microsoft had all the antitrust law suits filed against them in the 90's was because they refused to spend money on campaign contributions and lobbyists, right? Lobbyist for other companies did though, and windows has never been the same..... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

Which goes back to easy, well established rules that everyone knows. Not 2,000 page monstrosities of leagaleeze.... but then again, our Obama couldn't even read the 14 page Arizona bill on illegal immigration..... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

You are right in that they have to use "perception." Not everyone is forth coming with their corrupt dealings. but as the old saying goes, "where there is smoke, there is fire." While Bush and Obama both have there questionable dealings, Can you really name anything that Obama has done on the straight up and up? Obama care had the back room dealings with the drug companies, HMO's, and bribes to various states. The NLRB strong armed Boeing for a Union deal. You already mentioned Solyndra, and we haven't even started getting into his Czars or Eric Holder who is a train wreck by himself.... Yes, and another thing those countries have in common is simple well established rules that allow ease of business. When was the last time they passed a law that was 2,000 pages long in the middle of the night that effected business on such a grand scale? Like Obamacare or the Dodd-Frank Finance reform bill? Heavy regulation like that creates black markets (see Greece) Blagojevich is a great example. Chicago style politics has moved to the white house. "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything

It's hard to Imagine how we could be less aware of it back then. According to the media, Bush could do nothing right. They salivated at the thought of crucifying him.... "There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything