Michele

Yes, isn't it? So, when are you going to get into the sky so you can PULL again? Look, we all reach points in skydiving where we wonder what and why we are doing it. For me, it was the horrific battle with fear; the absolute win-or-lose fight which went on in my head, pulling me back and forth. I fought - wrestled and battled and scrabbled and just plain fought - my fear, and I thought I had conquered it. And then I ended up with 6 months off. My recurrency jump was about as difficult a jump as I've done; I was ill, sweating profusely, hot and cold by turns. I had no idea if I was really going to make it out the door until I was in the air...you can ask my instructor (SharK). He didn't think I'd get out the door, either. But once in the air, all was well again. It's about saying "yeah, I can do this" and then not listening to self when self shrieks "don't you dare!!!" It's about disciplining yourself to say "hello, fear, now get lost" and learning about how things go, and how your brain works, while in freefall. It's about doing it anyway. You pulled. You did it. How cool is that? Look at that rather than focus on what went wrong on your very first jump...when you had no idea if your brain would work, or what freefall was like, or anything at all about skydiving...once you had a grasp of what it was like, you were able to pull. Good deal, you know? Good deal. Hang in, get back out there, and go make a skydive. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

(Bill, this isn't directed at you; I've just hit the reply button instead of going back to 78rats' original post.) O.k. I'm the problem. Now, how do YOU propose I fix stuff? See, when you don't include yourself in the problem, when you don't accept responsibility for contributing to the problem, you're not held accountable to fix/correct it. It's pretty simple. You - by blaming others - deny your own responsibility in the problem (whatever problem you are talking about). Because you deny your own responsibility in the problem, that part of it will not ever be fixed. It's so much easier to lay it out on someone else - i.e. "you are the fucking problem" - and not have any of the responsibility lay on your shoulders. That way, you don't have to do anything differently, you don't have to change your perspective, you don't have to do anything at all except say "you are the fucking problem" and leave it go. So, what part of the problem do you accept, and will change? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Love and healing to your mom - I'm currently dealing with my father's broken hip and ribs, so I know how worried and scary it can be. Prayers to you and your mom, and hugs to the both of you, as well. It will be all right... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

That message came through loud and clear; and while I didn't agree with the "ironic humor" part, it's all good...that's what life's about. Aren't those the most telling? Those nasty grams which reveal the true person - or at least, part of the true person - that is not shown on these boards. I've received several in my time, and have discovered the most glorious feature of pm blocking. (And no, it wasn't me, either....). Good post, Jen. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Yes. She's telling you she's a clutz. I watched Pie (my psychotic calico cat) try to get on top of the curtain rod in my bedroom. No real reason, nothing up there, just something to do I guess. Well, she leapt. Stretched herself to her full kitty length, and reached. And missed. And subsequently plummeted about 7 feet to the floor. She landed there, looked at me, stood up, and wandered off. She's never tried that again, although she does make it a habit to walk my headboard. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure what you were going for, and so didn't answer. Some folks around here are familiar with my battle. When I got diagnosed, I was with an MFCC. She referred me to a psychiatrist, and after much debate (three months of it, as a matter of fact), I started meds. I continued counseling with her for the next 18 months, learning new coping skills and handling some core issues. Mary, my MFCC, was superb. The meds are superb. I would not be here today if the combination of both counseling and medication was not undertaken. I would've killed myself. Edit: To those who think they're quacks, why do you hold that opinion? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Celebrities I've met by the dozen - after all, Ron Howard married my babysitter... But bad-guy celebs? Not unless you count people like Winona Ryder, Morton Downey jr., and that ilk. There were a few people I went to HS with that sorta went sour, but more along the lines of white collar stuff - David Davidson, for one, who bilked many homeowners out of their mortgages and served a lot of time for that, and stuff like that. But no murdering scum. That I know of, anyway. A couple of folk I've always had questions about, though they've not been convicted of anything (or accused, either, as far as I know.) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

And goodness, I hope that someday in the future, cancer and AIDs and other killing illnesses are cured, and there's no need for medical treatments at all for them, either. Why isolate it to mental illness and psychotropic drugs? Why not include the hope - utopian that it is at this time - that all illnesses of the body are cured? And you weren't flamed...questioned, and disagreed with, yes...but that was no flaming at all. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Jer, what sort of mental health professionals? There's a whole lot of different kinds, and most of them can't prescribe psychotropic medication. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Know what? The sky's not going anywhere. And if it does, you'll have a whole lot more to worry about then skydiving, I promise. Re-read your sig line, and decide what you want for your whole life, not just your weekends, or time off. And then go confidently in the direction of your dream...and thanks for serving. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

So what do we do in the meantime? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

When all this started on Saturday, I sent a mod a pm asking them to review the posts. I expressed my opinion in the pm about these threads, and the mod agreed to review them. He locked two, and left the other. His explanation for leaving it (not that I deserved one) was that it nominally discussed flag burning, and had some content because of that. I am not green. I do not make those sorts of decisions around here. Whether I agree with his decision or not is moot; what matters is that these guys do their damnedest to make things civil, despite all attempts to do otherwise... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

There was an ash dive for Jimmy today - it was as lovely as a dive like that can be. Lots of family, friends, and his sister released his ashes in his true home...the sky. And it was a glorious, blue, deep sky. Rest in peace, Jimmy and Manny. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

You're welcome. I nannied for some scientologists in the mid-80's, when it was "cool" to be one. I remember some very strange conversations with them, but they never pressured me to become one. I also recall some mornings they'd have me come early, so they could go protest. Their children were really neat kids; I hope they turned out all right. I've read somewhere that he didn't graduate high school, either. Not that higher education is important - I don't have a college degree, but am fairly widely read and decently traveled, and I think that makes up for some stuff. Cruise is, hopefully, feeling the backlash of the crap he pulled on Lauer - I didn't watch Oprah so I can't comment on that; his publisis (his sister LeeAnn) must be going crazy if she cares about his career (and she should - it's the way she's earning a living), and doing whatever she can to rein him in. However, if only 10% of the stuff I've read about LRH and Dianetics and Scientology is true, then it's a no win situation. Sadly, there are people who will have stopped taking medications and following their Dr's orders because of what Cruise spouted...and they are at risk for getting sicker. I wish them all the help in the world, and not from the Scientologists. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I haven't...which is why, tomorrow, finally, I am going to be able to get back into the blue. The body's healthy, the mind is mostly healthy, the famkily's doing all right, and I've got the $$...so tomorrow I fly. I'm not current - but by this time tomorrow, I will be. HOT DAMN!!!! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Yes, Quade, I do see that. I just wasn't sure where you were heading with your question...ie. mythology (which, btw, has very very strong female characters) or in current, 2005 standards (which still may be true, but not nearly as strongly entrenched.) It's clearer to me. I'm just heading out - but I'll be more than happy to discuss this in a bit. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Can you give other examples of this, Quade? As for the article, I don't think it values women over men. Rather, it talks about several of the men too, and uses the "headline" technique to get readership. The point it does bring up, however, about women being used more in the front lines, is interesting, and does cover a respect for women that this country (finally) shows. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

O.K., I'll consider it. And while I understand your points very, very well (and in fact hold them, although not to the extreme you do; i.e. I wouldn't burn a flag to spite anyone for any reason, irrespective of which flag/country it represents), I just see this as a form of posting which is beneath you. Don't know you personally, only through here, but to hold up a person for public ridicule is not to my taste, or to my sense of humor. It is, however, your post, and you've done as you see fit. I'm just expressing my dislike, and shall, at this point, bow out of this thread altogether. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Knowing Rob, I'd have to say I agree with this. But this is about as stupid a poll as I've seen...Jen, I understand your thoughts on this, but this thread is not terribly appropriate (imho), and doesn't serve a dratted thing. Sorta like the whole ViperPilot thread. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I've got nothing to do at the moment, so I decided I'd do a bit more of a thorough research on Scientology and Dianetics...at this point, I am wishing I had something else to do. Scary stuff... Those statements about exercise and vitamins Cruise was talking about? It's something called the "Purification Rundown." It entails copious use of vitamins, exercise and sauna, working to clear your body of stored drugs. Sounds good, right? I mean, exercise and vitamins are good things. They do help one feel better about things. Except....the "Purif" program recommends vitamin A at 50,000 IU a day. Yet, according to what I've read, vitamin A is toxic starting at 20,000 IU per day. The program also recommends niacin dosages starting at 100 milligrams and rises to 5,000 milligrams over the course of the program. Niacin toxic dose begins at 3,000 mg and can damage your liver rather quickly at that level. Vitamin D: 2,000 IU a day (where most recommendations are 2000 IU from all sources) is toxic to children immediately, and is the recommended beginning dosage for all people (including children) in the program. It starts there; I was unable to determine what the top dose was. They also say to consume oil. The theory is that to replace the stored fat (releasing the bad toxins including LSD, pot, and other illegal stuff), you must give your body a replacement. To this end, the "Church" recommends consuming a combination of safflower, soy, walnut and peanut oils in such doses as to cause diahhrea and irritated bowels. Not only is this not a fun thing to experience, there's no science which states that "replacing" the fat actually works. If you consume the oils before you start the running part, you will burn that off, and not the stored fat. And if you consume it after you run, you will just store it as fat, and cover the "embedded" toxins that much more. But hey, LRH wasn't a Dr, he was a failed sci-fi author....I guess it worked in those worlds he created... The running part? Well, it starts at a minimum of a fast run for 30 minutes, without a Dr's physical to make sure you can start that. If you fall below a certain pace, from what I can gather, your time is nullified and you start back at the first second of the 30 minutes. Yes, you have a "twin" with you at all times....and as you progress through the program, you are tasked with running for up to 2 hours...10 miles at a time, I recall reading. Once you've completed the 30(+) minutes of fast running, you go into the sauna. Temps in the sauna start at 140 and go as high as 180, and you spend up to 4 hours at a time there. You have some breaks for water, and if you get heat stroke, you can have a cool shower...but then back into the sauna with you. This program is, at a minimum, something on the order of 14 days in a row, and can, in some cases (like if you can't hit the running part) go as long as a month. Daily. The effects of that much physical exercise can't be all bad, right? Not true. You need to condition your body (if in decent health to begin with) to handle 10 miles of running at a time...and that much time in a sauna, either dry or wet, is flat out dangerous. And then add the massive overdoses of several vitamins, and this whole program can kill you. Easily. And has, from some of the research I've seen... Sure, there's a euphoric state from all the endorphins tossed into your system from the running...but that's not a permanent effect. Rather, to use a Cruise comment, it "masks" underlying problems... A little bit about the teachings of Dianetics (the difference between Scientology and Dianetics seems to be that Scientology deals with the physical, whereas Dianetics deals more with the mind/spiritual...although that line is often crossed between the two...). Hubbard taught that humans were made of clusters of spirits -- or "thetans" -- that were banished to earth some 75 million years ago by a cruel galactic ruler name Xenu. Hubbard supposedly saw these thetans as a cause for human unhappiness which needed to be brought under control. To "clear" these thetans, it seems, costs a huge amount of money...courses, seminars, auditing, and immersion into a system which indeed controls their adherents in manners reminisent of some totalitarian government... Some additional reading: FAQs on Scientology (their website) Someone's experience Seems this author did the first two weeks to write a story about Scientology...interesting reading, and gives a glimpse of some of the more nefarious tactics used by this "church" to control it's members... Poor Tom. Mediocre acting, and involved in a cult-like religion which demands that no-one uses medication, even if it will save their life. And poor us. For those who idol worship, they are at risk because one of their idols told them to not use medication which will, as Sinker put it well, get the window open for therapy and learning how to deal with issues....I call it getting the floor back under me, stabilizing enough that I can address - and then change - those issues which I can change, and come to terms with those I cannot. Like I said, I wish I had something else to do this morning.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Absolutely correct. And a lot of them suicide because they need the meds, but don't see how they can take them because the people around them point and call names and just plain don't understand what clinical depression is and is not. Not being able to have the support of those around you makes a tough tough fight even harder. Anne, thanks for speaking about this. I am really glad to hear you're doing well...and equally glad to hear you and Marc are watching carefully. And yes, 'Twardo, I answered my own question. It's just a pity. The more I read about Scientology, the more I am glad I am not of that "religion." Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Interesting theory, but I don't think it quite fits. If Cruise indeed joined Scientology in the late 80's, he would, by now, be very, very, very well versed in LRH's position on psychiatry, and all the different techniques to get "clear." I read somewhere that Scientologists are told that they will not be able to achieve "clear" status if they take so much as aspirin on a regular basis, although I am not sure that's accurate. But surely, LRH's intense hatred of mainstream psychology is well known, and, I'm sure, equally well taught throughout the "orgs." As he claimed in the Lauer interview, he knows the history of psychology. I just wonder where he learned it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

No, the I in my sig line refers to me, and I haven't got a "willie-the-one-eyed wonder worm" of my own...I'm a girl! LOL. As for it being porn or not, that's for the reader to determine. No-one's ever said to me "well, I didn't like that..." ROFL!!! As for you, Muenkel, you've never asked to read any. LOLOLOL!!! But the issue really isn't that; it's about the record keeping, which means I can't submit them to anyone...like I said, I'd use a pseudonym, and the record keeping would put the kibash on that. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I don't give a hot damned about who he's sleeping with, or what his religion is. I do give a hella hot damned about his commentary on anti-depressants. His comments are irresponsible, callous, righteous, and dangerous for many, many people. Certifiable? No. He gets to speak just as anyone else does. His commentary about psychiatry are out of line. Scientology - or "Dianetics" rather - speaks out directly against psychiatry, and all the attendent stuff. Scientology does, however, does indeed practice psychotherapy in the broadest sense of the term. L. Ron Hubbard believed that all physical and psychiatric issues we experience is a direct result of something called an "engram," or an imprinting of an experience on a cellular level, perhaps as many as several lifetimes ago. Scientology teachers/counselors take the person back to the 'original' experience, and confront it, thus "clearing" it. Once you're "cleared" all will be well in your world; all the money, fame, health, happiness and other stuff will be with you automatically. That's what I understand, at least, that Scientology teaches in regards to psychiatry. I dunno about the extra terrestrial comment someone made above, but it wouldn't surprise me. Irrespective of all of that, Cruise's comments were/are dangerous, and I find myself appalled at his irresponsibility in his commentary. He has a right to say what he did...and I have a right to call him a dangerous, arrogant jackass (with sincere apologies to Vinny). Ciels- Michele Edited to add: a quick google search shows that Cruise joined Scientology in either the late '80's or early 90's...which is not such a recent conversion. ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Jump number 3, just about 5 weeks into the sport. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~