Michele

I would be more than happy to...you know me... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Here's a link to all official speeched GWB gave from 09/11/01 to 09/16/01 (and one from 09/20/01). 09/11/01 bin Ladin not mentioned September 11, 2001 bin Ladin is not mentioned. letter to congress 09/12/01well, no mention here, either... 09/13/01 bin Ladin not mentioned. Hrmmmm.... 09/14/01 bin Ladin not mentioned. 09/13/01 um.... 09/14/01 at Ground Zero Nope.... 09/15/01 bin Ladin not mentioned here either... Radio address, 09/15/01 Sigh... 09/16/01 guess what? 9/20/01 text oh dear. (just so you all know what I did, I used the word search function [control button 'f', typed in bin ladin, and hit search...now, it could be in there, but the feature didn't find it...) BTW, here's SH's speech on September 13, 2001...interesting (Dunno how accurate a translation it is, but it's an interesting read....) And to put the information BillV and Kallend selectively quoted in context, here is the entire question and answer.... " Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive? THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban. But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money. And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom. " Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

If you're going to make it the whole point of your argument, I would suggest you do get it correct if you want to be taken seriously. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER! Like 20 cases or something! LOL Just don't forget the flour. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

We are sooooooooo not forgetting the Air Boss.....not at all. Ah, my gear is available.... (geesh, I can't even give it away! LOL!!!) Nah, I know, Rich. The Shark and I have been pming about my stuff, and it is huge compared to what you all jump...so I really am playing. I promise. Hugs to you all - and the ash dive sounds interesting....... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks so much, Ron. The more people who are able to donate, the better for the instructors. Thousands and thousands of dollars in equipment was lost, and it isn't covered by insurance. Every donation helps... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

What did I do? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

What I've discovered is that if something similar was said, words were changed around, by whomever, and made it inflammatory. Further, the "priorty" claim was alledgedly from March 13, 2002 (I think), but in the except I linked (on the other post) he didn't say that at all. I believe I linked the entire transcript there, but I'm not sure. It's a typical tactic (from any direction) which is why I've gotten into the habit of checking things out when they're quoted - simply because if it's wrong, I don't want to pass on incorrect info. I would really like it if Kallend could source the quote....but I don't think he can. (And I'm still wondering what ever happened to Benny...). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh. I thought it went like this. Men are like linoleum. They yellow as they age, get nasty waxy build-up, and after a while start peeling at the edges. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Cough cough ***I wonder why no-one's taken me up on the offer of my Spectre 210, PD 193, 1994 DOM container *** cough cough.... No, I know it's way not what you guys jump. Maybe you could practice accuracy or something. Well, it's mine, though, and I love it. So there! nyah!! The paypal thing is going great guns, though. Hammo didn't know what to say - but he does pass on his appreciation to everyone who has, and who will, donate...every dollar makes a difference. Each and every one. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

LOL, Jason. Thanks. (or do I detect a note of sarcasm therein?? j/k!!) The pity is that Kallend hasn't backed up his claim....and Benny never came through. Although you can see that both of them have been around. I wonder why? I'm not that scary.... Sigh. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I have no idea. I failed algebra. I think there are certain things in your life which are preordained. Nothing you do/don't do will change it. It's not specifically biology - and sorry if I gave that impression. That was just the easiest example I could find. Here's a good example of a non-biologic event; take the '72 quake. It happened. I lived through it. I made some choices about earthquakes, and I live now in the area. While my reaction to it was choice, the earthquake happened. I also believe that there are certain things which, while preordained, are tempered or exacerbated by your action/reaction to the situation. I have a personal responsibility to act in a manner befitting my ethics, morality, and view on life to whatever happens in my world. My actions will either make the situation better or worse - and not just for me, but for those around me. Personal responsibility/free will will often change a negative situation to a positive one, but it takes thought and effort to create value. Does that help any? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hi, Kallend. I am still looking to find that exact quote....can you link it for me? I've looked and looked, but still can't find where Bush said it....linked here is a post which addresses that exact quote, and my response to BillV about it.., the post from before.... So if you have a source from Bush, please please please post it. Thanks! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I have a very intertwined view. Here is an explanation I wrote out to someone (I hope they don't mind me putting it out here.) A few definitions as I understand them and as they apply to my life. Fate/Preordination/Destiny: Those things which will happen, no matter what (immutable, unchangeable). Examples: being adopted. Having a double cervix. Chance: things which happen at random. (very similar to fate). Consequence: AKA Cause and Effect. (late for work, fenderbender. Telling your boss to fuck off, and getting fired. Ozzy Osbourne's drug use and current life....) Freewill: Choice of paths to travel, given a set of circumstances. Value creation option. Personal responsibility. What I do believe is, simply put, that there are some things which are consequence based - i e you reap what you sow; and that there are some things which just are, and you get to handle those. Woven into all of that is the concept of free will, and that you can choose a reaction to any situation which will create value from it, or which will create more problems. And laying on top of all of that is personal responsibility. Things, no matter what, are our own responsibility to address in the most appropriate, value creating way, irrespective of the cause...be it "done to us", or via our own creation. If I were to create an equation on this, it would look something like this: + Certain events no one can control + Personal responsibility + Free Will + Cause and Effect Your life (Value Creation) Take, for example, my depression. I didn't know I had it ("fate": body doesn't produce the chemicals), made some bad choices (personal responsibility/freewill), reaped what I had sown and suffered a great deal (Cause and Effect), am now on meds (personal responsibility/freewill) and try to use my depression and recovery to benefit others (Value Creation)... It's rather more complicated then that, but that is a decent example. Ciels- Michele edited because I can't spell equation correctly.... ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hi, Ron! It's allowed, and very much needed. There's a paypal account, and all other info, in the sticky on the top of this page. Thanks for your encouragement and donation. I am sure it is very appreciated. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hey, Hammo! You're not alone. Know that beyond anything else. let me know what you need done, and I'll do whatever I can to get it done. And good to see you posting here. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks, Sparky.... And huge thanks to everyone who has already donated. I know there is no way we can ever replace all the personal gear lost, but we can start to make a difference, and every little bit helps. And it's more than the amount sent in...it's about letting those folks at Elsinore who feel as if they've lost everything that they haven't lost everything - we are still here, we are thinking of them, and we are supporting them. Because we are, no doubt, a family. And in times like these, family makes the difference between dispair and hope, failure and success. ~~Elsinore is not alone!~~ Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh, well, then thanks again! Besides, you've had a really bad day, so I may have let it slide.... As to where Benny went, I dunno....disappeared, it looks like. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

But he said if I showed him mine, he'd show me his. And he hasn't! I feel cheated. (or perhaps relieved...he's still really young, you know??) I mean, fine, I'm not the free fly goddess - heck, I'm not even a belly flyin' imp - but still...a promise is a promise. (hey, maybe I intimidated him. I do that sometimes...and I don't always mean to...). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

You mean you were being sarcastic about my post? I'm still waiting for Benny to show me his.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I love living without contacts or glasses. It frees you up in ways you won't believe...and I wouldn't have started jumping had I still been in contacts/glasses... Go for it... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I had no idea!!! Happy birthday, my friend. May the year be complete, and may you find everything you're looking for. hugs to you! Ciels- michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I don't disagree...just really curious as to how long you think this should take? What sort of precursor events should there be? I think that getting control and power turned over in July '04 is pretty good...but what do I know? I don't know how long these things should take. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Mark, Jason, whomever... There are lots of people who are willing to help out with gear and such. Can you pm me a list of stuff needed, or post it seperately? I know that there are people willing to help, they just don't know with what. So let's see if we can't get a list of things needed, not just school, but personal gear, too. Thanks, love. And I am hugging you all in my heart. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Right now, they are putting the pieces together. I hope to have a list of things needed soon. How about emailing Betsy? I think she's handling all gear inquiries and matching up people with stuff. Here's her email: betsy@skydiveelsinore.com. And thanks sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo very much to all who have donated, and all who will. The money will come in handy, but the gesture - the way knowing people care will make those in need feel - that is priceless. Thank you all so much (and thanks, HH, for letting this stay sticky!) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~