Michele

Geesh, Jeanne. I never suggested - nor do I exclusively use - "ultra right wing" sources. I have difficulty with your source. It reminds me of David Icke, Rense and a few of the other conspiracy websites that are around (who's that guy who's overnight on talk radio - whatshisname - always going on and on about aliens and so forth...). I'd suggest finding some moderate website, researching verifiable facts, and then formulating your own opinion. It's not too difficult. As to the "good, church going sheeple", I find that utterly ridiculous and thoroughly beneath you. Unfortunately, you don't seem to concur... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

RR, any time. LOL!!! Dinner was absolutely delightful...I devoured it. The Chianti wasn't what I expected. Anyone have any suggestions for a nice Chianti? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Ratical's "mission statement"... "rat haus reality, ratical branch is the electronic manifestation of rat haus reality press, dedicated to promulgating and promoting life-nurturing activities and awarenesses regarding this "home" we all share and are all responsible for, not simply for the seventh generation of humankind yet unborn, but for all life germinated and nourished by Gaia. the human transition from an adolescent, "industrial-mind" value system, based only on asking the question, is it POSSIBLE?, to Gaia- sustaining and promoting practices and explorations which must ask the question, is it APPROPRIATE? is the only possible future of human activity on this earth. without taking responsibility for everything we participate in here, we condemn to premature termination the exquisite eons of life exploring itself in this dimension." And one of several pages here And their bulletin board here Know what, Jeanne? While some of the information is verifiable (from my own research...), I have extreme difficulty looking through this website and not having a fundamental difference of opinion regarding reality from what's contained therein. As for the germ of truth in your post, it is nothing that can't be found on several of my posts, and many reliable sources from a quick 'net search - without the liberal left twist (far more than a bent) that I find on that particular site. And while there are some interesting things to read there, and some things that may actually prove food for thought (for instance, the Hopi culture is a dynamic, and fascinating one), I find it's political perspectives rather unreal...as those on the BB demonstrate. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Actually, with a bit of research, you'd realize that it was the Carter administration which began with the funding - and the cold war issues which figure prominently into today's events. I've posted the links prior to this, and won't bother myself to do so again...but it's there. Further, you might realize that OBL was not part of the organization which the Carter admin began funding, but came there after several other issues created the desire and opportunity for OBL to join. And still further, you might realize that OBL was not the head of the Afghanistan force, but rather a rich, ideological, villinous man. And still further you would understand, should you be interested in learning independent of what media tells you, that OBL and the head of the Mujahadin had a falling out, and that in effect, AQ was an off-shoot of the original fighting force. When the original leader was assassinated, OBL came back in.... Or perhaps you'd understand it a bit more if one were to point out the Iran hostage situation contributed mightily to our limited support of Hussein, and that even during that time he was considered a bit of a problem. Still further research would teach you that we faced a no-win situation, and chose the best route forward. And yet even more time spent researching would show you that OBL structured and facilitated the 93 WTC attack, which was one of the first warnings the US had about who and what OBL was - and also irrefutably demonstrated our vulnerability; yet no actions were taken, no steps made to tighten our responses...but Clinton was busy fucking an intern, and lying about it, so those deaths must not have mattered...and continue the "not mattering" up through the USS Cole... Et cetera. I am never going to convince you of anything you're not willing to be open about, Jeanne. No one will be. You are an intelligent woman, more than capable of thinking for yourself. It is apalling and disappointing to see the mindless rhetoric you spew... As for blinders, I have chosen to spend years researching things for myself, learning about various aspects of political choices, conflicts and tensions. In 1993, I told a friend of mine we were in for a world of hurt...and in 2001, she called me and said "I never thought you'd be right about this. And I'm sorry you were." Debate with real facts, and real personally arrived at opinions, Jeanne. If all you do is repetitively, unthinkingly spout what is commonly heard on liberal media, you will not understand what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen...and what we, as a nation, are facing. Thanks for that, Jimbo; it is appreciated.

Doesn't the FBI handle the crime stats? maybe a swing through their site would help. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

LOL, yes, she did. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that Clinton turned down an opportunity to arrest OBL? Or maybe she doesn't think those on the USS Cole are good enough citizens to recognize their deaths as "real"...or maybe the Embassy bombings - which killed hundreds - weren't enough, either...or even the '93 bombing, which Ramzi Yousef masterminded, when entering the US on an Iraqi passport...or any of the other dead because of Clinton's inaction because he was "getting a blow job and lying about it".... Oh. OOOOPS...gee, aren't I mean? Interjecting facts when it's obvious people only want emotion and rhetoric. So sorry. I'll go back to my dinner now... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

You can't be serious, Jeanne. You really can't be serious. Please, tell me you don't think Clinton's inaction/lies/ignoring of the issues didn't get anyone killed. Please tell me you see beyond that tripe.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Nor should they be. As to it being "my" beloved Isreal, I did not say that....not sure where you got that idea. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Benny, if I were drinking beer, I'd've spewed it on the monitor because of your comment. You didn't even bother looking at ANY of the websites I linked...let alone read them, take them into your brain, consider them, and point out what is wrong/right. Good grief. Do you really just accept anything your people tell you, and not take anything else into consideration? 'Twould seem so, and would explain your very narrow view on a gigantic world full of twists, turns, and complications. Sigh... Ciels- michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Some interesting reading here about terrorism, Iraq, President Bush, and various terror organizations in Iraq... State of the Union Address, January, 2002 Excerpted: "Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade. This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens -- leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children. This is a regime that agreed to international inspections -- then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world. States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic. We will work closely with our coalition to deny terrorists and their state sponsors the materials, technology, and expertise to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction. We will develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect America and our allies from sudden attack. (Applause.) And all nations should know: America will do what is necessary to ensure our nation's security. We'll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons. (Applause.)" By the way, he mentioned Iraq 2 times, Hussein zero, terrorism 3 times....you get the idea... Speech to the UN September 12, 2002 Excerpt: In 1991, the U.N. Security Council, through Resolution 687, demanded that Iraq renounce all involvement with terrorism, and permit no terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Iraq's regime agreed. It broke this promise. In violation of Security Council Resolution 1373, Iraq continues to shelter and support terrorist organizations that direct violence against Iran, Israel, and Western governments. Iraqi dissidents abroad are targeted for murder. In 1993, Iraq attempted to assassinate the Emir of Kuwait and a former American President. Iraq's government openly praised the attacks of September the 11th. And al Qaeda terrorists escaped from Afghanistan and are known to be in Iraq." Speech In Cinncinnati October 7, 2002 Anyway...on to the terrorism thought. Iraq has a long history of sponsoring state terror, and of being involved with at a high level encouraging such attacks. Some of the direct connections between known terrorists and Iraq include: ~Abu Abbas, the mastermind of the Achille Lauro, and his group (PLO, PLF); ~Al Ansar - this is a very itneresting link...and this http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/asb.htm]link [/url, too. ~[url http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/mek.htm]Mujahadin-e-Khalq (MEK); ~[url http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/abu.htm]ANO, or Abu Nidal Organization (btw, Nidal was found dead in Bahgdad in AUgust (iirc); ~15 May Organization (now defunct); And then there's the famous Salman Pak....I've done a bunch of research on it, and posted here. Run a search on it, and you should find some interesting reading. FYI, A great listing of some good, bad, functional and defunct terrorism organizations can be found here. Happy reading! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

LOL! The conversation at Trader Joes: Me: Excuse me... Friendly assistent: Yes? Me: I've got the worst craving tonight. I want a nice Chianti, some lamb chops, and do you carry any fava beans? Friendly assistent: Ummmmmmmm..... (the entire conversation got several laughs from overhearers....) Yes, I can be really mean. And that is a spectacular movie. One of my alltime fav's. As soon as I get my VCR fixed, I'll watch it again! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Jeanne my lambkin, my point was simple, as well. The post discussed "500 dead"...and you bring up that potshots hadn't been taken since '46 or so, a year after the war ended. I was simply illustrating that there is no reason to expect this to be any different than prior wars, including "occupation", installation of governments, and long presence in the area. The current potshots/IEDs are "normal", and account for more than half of the deaths from before major battles were stated to be over. Memories being long and all, this has been a very low fatality war, it's been short, and it's been limited to that which was necessary. I am extremely proud of my military for doing such a sharp job, such a difficult job, and under such pinpoint observations. I grieve each serviceman or woman we (and other countries, including Iraq) have lost, however, so don't get me wrong there, as well as all the civilians who've died, both on my own soil as well as Iraq and Afghanistan. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I will be making a hamburger with crumbled bleu cheese, alfalfa sprouts, sauted onions and mushrooms, in a whole wheat pita, and a nice Chianti. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Which was at least one year after the war was over, and treaties were signed...seems like even you agree that there was difficulty with "potshots" and insurgents in both of those conflicts... Why complain that there are still "potshots" (or IED's) in Iraq, +/- 6 months after major battles were completed? And only about 1.5 months after the despotic leader was found and captured? Why would the aftermath in Iraq be any different than any other country? (I sense instant gratification propensities of my generation rearing it's ugly head here...) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Congratulations, Dave! And may the happiness you have now stretch from here into forever... Best of luck!! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Sorry. I must be dense. But what shots do they call, and is it the Skull and Bones or the Masons who call whatever shots? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hi, quade. Actually, here is a chart of suicide rates per 100,000. It was the easiest to read and compare with overall, and that's why I chose to link that particular one. 17.6(male) + 4.1(female) per 100,000/US. 21 suicides for the 140,000 (+/-) troops in Iraq. Actually, pretty much right what I would've expected. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Bobsled, forgive me. What is that, and why is it important enough to not vote for him? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

This is the first I've heard of that. Can you source it, please? And just because it hasn't been mentioned on this site yet, The "Gatekeeper" Ghul seems to have been arrested in Fallujah. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Yep, it's pretty neat. Thanks, Bill! You rock! (I'll pm you later!) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I woke up this morning, looked in the mirror, and decided that if that was reality, I'd rather be dreaming. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I exist. But I am unreal. Or at least, that's what I've been told... But I'm not sure if the person who told me that was real. If they were real, then I would be unreal. But if they were unreal, wouldn't that make me real? Well, whatever. Oh, look, it's my navel. I believe I shall contemplate the reality of unreality, or the unreality of reality. Or the juxtaposed positioning of mutually exclusive unproved theorems, like military intelligence. I have a headache. And boy, that's real. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hey, good news!!! Post pix now. Congratulations! And the skydiving family grows, one by one... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Love ya, Mel! Can't wait to see you. Hugs and spankings on your birthday from whomever you choose! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I can't go, as I've already told Terry, but I am more than willing to withdraw $20 from my account and jump in spirit with you all....I'll handle that today or tomorrow (when I have time...). But you must post pictures. Deal?? Hey, Terry? Well done. Told ya it was a great idea.