377

Even if they were ankle height... didn't most/all jumpers in those days jump with big boots? we should try to analyse the shoes decision (or lack of) in the context of what the "done thing" was in those days. Just like saying jets are "no big deal", well maybe in those days they were? How many pure sport skydivers had done jet jumps back then? Orange, We did use big paraboots back then, but wouldn't you know from your first freefall experience that you face hellacious relative wind forces in a jump that would rip off casual shoes? You might even surmise that from a static line jump but I am not as sure. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[;) I have no idea what shoes he had on... Tina said ankle length but Im not even clear what that means. Loafers are ankle length? I guess we need a committee? I sure wish we had solid info on what kind of shoes DBC jumped with. If the shoes were loafers or some other type likely to be stripped off by the exit windblast, then it would be a pretty good bet that he had little or no jump experience and that he didn't have any idea what he was facing on the jump and post landing egress to civilization. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger, I really think you give polygraph exams more credibility than they deserve. There is a reason they are inadmissible in most (but not all) state and federal criminal courts: they only measure physio parameters, not veracity and their interpretation is subjective. Polygraphs, voice stress analysis, PET scans and many other tests have been advocated as truth-lie discriminators. So far, unless the parties stipulate to their admission, they cannot be placed into evidence because their reliability has not been adequately proven. They are used in investigations, but they don't make it into the courtroom. I once had a client flunk two voluntary polygraph exams (one police, one private) on a burglary that he positively did not commit. He was Chinese, had no criminal record and apparently was so upset about being accused and the resultant shame it brought upon his family that it skewed the exam results. Thank God I got the case dismissed. You don't get very many truly innocent clients. The thought of having one convicted really had me sweating. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Man, sounds like everyone except me has a movie/book deal. This seems to be the accusation of choice on the forum: you are (lieing/concealing/misleading) because you have a secret movie/book deal. Nobody has made any serious money off of any DB Cooper literary or dramatic work and nobody ever will. The story has very limited appeal. It is still interesting to the general public but not enough to make them shell out money. They will get their fill from the news media. I, however, will buy any book that anyone here writes about DBC, even one written by Jo if she cares to do it. A sale of one copy is guaranteed. Even if Galen Cook is correct about Gossett, his book will not make the NY Times best seller list nor will a movie version of the book be a blockbuster. Any DBC book will be a labor of love, not a get rich quick thing. If Jerry has a book deal more power to him. Jo, if you can get a deal, go do it. Nobody is gonna retire on the proceeds. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Orange is right. Women who claim to have been sexually molested by aliens have "passed" polygraph exams, whatever "passed' means on such an unproven technique for testing truth. At best polygraphs measure stress. Delusional people don't feel stress when recounting their delusions. I had a criminal defendant tell me how he beat a polygraph exam. He hid a thumbtack in his shoe and pressed it painfully against his foot when answering control questions, like what his name was. When asked questions designed to determine if he had committed the crime he relieved the pressure and answered falsely. He claims to have "passed". Hey Snow, don't you think Jerry deserves an apology? Jerry is an experienced feet on the ground guy in a geographic area of interest. There is a lot that you can't see on Google Earth. Even though you two disagree on some DBC things, he has been pretty decent to you. I'd hate to see him leave. Give it some thought. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I was thinking both the island outline and the state or sector outlines are artificially produced, say by the computer...i.e. the radar isn't hitting the island outline. the outline of the island seems similar to the state/sector outlines, to me?? (edit) notice the one line extends out into the ocean. That's why I'm thinking some kind of sector line that roughly corresponds to OR/WA (edit) if you click on the image to enlarge it, I think you can even see faint lines in the middle radar image that outline areas within the state?? or something. What you say about the display does make sense Snow, but I am not certain. Someone on RADOMES can confim what it shows I'll bet. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't forget the door placard. It is pretty good evidence of at least one point in the flight path. Even with unknown wind drift it gives us a pretty good idea of where the NWA 727 was at some point in the door open flight. Agree? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It's ambiguous to me Snow. If it is painting the Vancouver Island outline it should be showing mountain echoes too and I dont see them clearly. In my expereince with X band marine radar, weather, especially heavy rain squalls, can totally obscure targets of interest. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

(from Snow's SAGE website link) I love it. Hacking a system must be human nature. A SAGE video game with over 50,000 vacuum tubes making it all happen. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK, I must have missed something important here. I dont mean to be "mean" but, where is the "document" you keep refrring to? I must have missed it. I have not seen it. Apologies that I was asleep and missed it - Where is this document. ??? there is none. exactly. so 377 is just blowing smoke rings, again, and siting his "personal opinion" as fact! we do have the account of the 106's maneuvering to stay behind 305, and their seeing 305's light flashed ....... but the intercept failed according to 377 with nothing to suggest that. I think I have it now. Georger, If I was wrong, my apologies. I can't find any official USAF admission that the F 106 intercept failed. Peer review is a bitch, but it keeps us from straying too far off the track. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I disagree with your covert CIA op conclusion Jo, based on slicing your thesis with Occam's razor. I also don't see what CIA goal would be advanced by hijacking a US airliner, asking for money, getting it and jumping out. Might Cooper have been associated with some CIA op in the past? Sure. He could have been a smokejumper who did CIA airdrop stuff in SE Asia. It is a big leap from having worked in some CIA afflilated project to being a real CIA agent. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

To the best of my knowledge, the USAF T 33 from 1971 didn't have on board radar that could do this. Do they mean ground radar contact was made? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Actually I am surprised the USAF revealed that the 727 intercept by ther F 106s failed. When I worked in the defense radar and avionics business detection and intercept failures were closely guarded secrets. Failures in real or simulated missions revealed weaknesses in our systems and gave potentially valuable info to the enemy. I would have expected the USAF to give some BS about how the NWA flight was tracked on their radars and that interceptors were scrambled and trailed the plane. If asked about details the USAF would say "sorry, that is classified information". 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't be mean Georger. SAGE and radar anecdotes are just fun for me. They may or may not lead to probative Cooper evidence. So far they have not, you are right about that, but you can say that about most things raised here. I just wish Jerry would find some Cooper stuff in the woods before we turn to cannibalism here. Somewhere out there is Cooper's chute. It can't stay hidden forever... or can it? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

http://air-combat.suite101.com/article.cfm/japanese_balloon_bombs_of_wwii#ixzz0Be1GblFz 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

A number of Japanese FUGU balloon borne fire bombs launched from Japan did come down in the Pacific Northwest during WW 2. Quite a few were found during the war. I wonder how many were found after the war? EDIT: see post below, 150 were found post war. Of course you don't know what you don't know, maybe many are still waiting to be found in the deep woods. They had a fair amount metal stuff on them (batteries, timers, aneroids, and some even had HF tracking transmitters) so they wouldnt dissolve quickly. Stats might give us a clue as to how likely it is that people will find stuff dropped randomly from the sky in that region. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

So am I right in assuming SAGE had NWA 727 target info from at least Mt Hebo AFS? Do you agree that the SAGE console/intercept operators would probably be at rapt attention? Would they have known that the hijacker had a chute? It's hard for me to keep all the old info straight. There is so much of it. Sorry if I am going over old stuff. I just wonder if it is likely that any USAF or USAF radar op might have been looking for Cooper's exit. Were there any DZs covered by the same radars that were tracking Cooper's flight? If so maybe the operators had experience seeing exiting jumpers on their screens. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

This radar operator anecdote stuff absolutely fascinates me Snow. Details like experienced ops being able to discriminate multiple targets beyond the theoretical limits imposed by pulse length are very interesting. Radar textbooks don't tell you everything apparently. If SAGE was really working well during NORJACK, the F 106 autopilots could have been controlled from the ground to fly an intercept using the F 106's MA1 fire control systems made by my old employer. Maybe the USAF thought the collision risk too great to use that mode in connection with a civil airliner? You have shown that the radar ops were always looking for tricks to see things at the limit of their system. Night after night boring boring boring, just airliners and routine USAF flights. A little excitement now and then from exercises. OK, NORJACK happens. HUGE F-ing deal. Right in the heart of SAGE country, plenty of coverage. Dontcha think every console operator at McChord is trying to see every tiny detail of the flight? I assume they know the hijacker has chutes. Correct? Who will be first to spot the exit? If F 106s were flying chase, wouldnt they kill the data block so that the F 106s could be seen on the scope if they were close to the NWA 727? The F 106 intercept failed. That must have been very very embarrassing to the USAF. If the SAGE guided F 106s couldnt find a transponder equipped 727 in their home turf what chance would they have intercepting a Russian intruder using ECM? Wish we knew what went on around all the McChord radar screens that night. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If you bring enough beer you will be warmly received regardless of what we really think of your t-shirt. That's a promise. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

When Snow gets busy with Photoshop I always get a big chuckle. The UFO nuts have tons of so called secret government documents "proving" that UFOs and aliens have visited Earth etc. Most were really crude but I am sure they are getting better now that Photoshop is avaialble. I can imagine a secret USAF SAGE file on the NORJACK case. The file was classified SECRET, because it revealed radar capability data that the Russkies could use against our western border air defenses. SAGE must have had a mode that would suppress the data display block that surrounded any echo of a transponder equipped friendly aircraft, otherwise it would be too easy for a Russian bomber to penetrate the ADIZ by flying in close formation trailing an incoming friendly trans Pacific airliner and remaining hidden in the data block area surrounding the airliner echo. In my fantasy, the USAF knew exactly where Cooper jumped, but military secrecy prevailed. Their job was air defense and they were not going to compromise it one tiny bit for a criminal case. April fool, of course, but if this were a UFO forum we'd have plenty of alleged government documents to prove everyone's favorite theory. So far, that phony document cancer hasn't infected the DBC crowd. Hunter T sure does look a LOT like DBC. Nice job Snow. It again proves your uncanny ability to extract new info from old data known to all. Hunter was quite a drunkard if the Gonzo bio movie was accurate. Wonder what he drank? His insatiable thirst for publicity makes me doubt that he could have kept quiet about the NORJACK accomplishment if he actually were DBC. He was a Hells Angels wannabe and was deeply hurt by their ultimate rejection of him as a non peer. NORJACK could have been his way of showing Sonny Barger that Hunter Thompson was no wimp. HT was a very narcissistic guy. HT isn't really a very serious DBC candidate, but it shows that you can make a case for just about anyone who fits the general look and is a bit odd in some way. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It's funny that Cooper is a really well known figure but nobody can monopolize or control use of his image/personna. MLKs and Elvis's heirs make big bucks through licensing. Didn't the post office have a program where you could buy blank stamps and upload your own graphics? Who will be the first? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

HF QRP rig. Icom 703. Probably 20 meters. 73 Mark 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Because we are so wacked out here, the hardcore old skydivers post the good 727 exit photos elsewhere. The first photo might shows the gear down, flaps and LE slats deployed and stairs down. Check out the 727 stair exit shot from the interior. It is not the first photo posted. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3526534;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Flying low around the Portland area, distracted by a gear problem, this UAL DC 8 jet crew blew it big time. Interesting read about what goes on in the cockpit flying around in that area at low altitudes and how fast you burn fuel. http://www.pilotfriend.com/disasters/crash/united173.htm 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I think Jerry has a really good point. Cooper had no reason to pack the chute out with him. Safe landing or fatal impact, there is a chute out there in either case. Careful about trying to domesticate Snow Jerry. Look what happened to Siegfried and Roy. I am a Snow fan, but they have cages for a reason. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.