377

Jo, I still have seen ZERO proof that connects Duane with any aspect of sport, military or fire fighting parachuting. If you could put Duane under a chute with irrefutable evidence, you'd catch my attention for sure. So far it's just speculation and nothing more. You have speculated that Duane was involved in smoke jumping, perhaps as a spotter rather than a jumper, but I have seen zero evidence and find it highly unlikely that he was given his criminal record. I doubt if "spotters" were people with no jump experience. You have to have jump experience to know how to be a good spotter in my book. I don't know enough about smoke jumping to give any solid conclusions. I don't even know if they had what you refer to as "spotters." The history of smoke jumping in the NW is surprisingly well documented. As far as I can tell, none of the historians have included Duane in any aspect of this specialized profession. What exactly are the statements you refer to that connect Duane with smoke jumping, even as a spotter? Who heard them besides you? Please give us exactly what he said. Don't mix in what you think he might have meant. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, Let's assume Cooper landed alive under an open canopy in the general area of your search or even outside that area but somewhere along the general flight path exiting around the time of the reported "pressure bump." I assume he'd bury or somehow visually mask the canopy and rig then escape on foot. Whether he survived the night is up for debate, but dead or alive there is an open or still packed chute out there in my opinion. I see no credible argument for taking the chute very far when you main motive is escape. Would an open canpy scrunched up and buried or stashed make its way towards a river? Woiuld it move much over the years? I know there are a zillion factors to condiser like slope, terrain, snags, etc. You think Cooper went in with a packed chute. If that's the case would you expect such a heavy dense item to move much? If he impacted without opening he'd generally be on the surface and more subject to wind and water movement than buried gear might be, I assume. Like to hear your thoughts. What do you expect to find under your theory and where? A packed chute and a harness near a creek or river? or? Welcome back. Wish Snow would return. Glad to see Sluggo still comes around now and then. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am going to offer a contrary opinion. Get a regular PD reserve. They are a proven mature product that has a great track record for reliability, strength and longevity. Knowing PDs track record, I am confident the Optimum will fare well long term, but the regular PDR has aready done so. The Raven Dash M reserve was supposed to be a big improvement over the Raven II, but it had some problems after commercial release. I don't think the Optimums will have problems that only show up after a while in general use, but you never know. The regular PD reserve is cheaper too. Don't misinterpret my advice as being anti innovation or anti PD. I owe my life to my PD 193R and am a big fan. I just think if you have a choice on emergency gear, go conservative, go proven, go behind the cutting edge not on it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Has anyone ever stated he spoke with an accent of any type? Maybe used a colloquialism like "soda" or "pop" as opposed to "Coke". Maybe DBC's polite manner ruled out the Left Coast. The use of "Miss" seems atypical in the California social vocabulary of 71. My Dad used "Miss" and he was from the East Coast. Other Dads seemed to use "Ma'am." Nothing solid to back this up, just musings. Welcome back Jerry. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I have a leather wrist mount with a stop watch and small CHUTE SHOP branded altimeter. I wear it for fun once in a while. It looks almost new and works fine. I sure get a lot of questions from new jumpers about the setup. The CHUTE SHOP altimeter looks a lot like a very professionally modified barometer. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Schlitz, What kind of contest? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bill has a valid logical point about design changes, but there is a good public policy reason for the following state evidence rule which is also found in the federal evidence code. You don't want to discourage mfrs from making design changes that remedy prior deficiencies. Calif Evidence Code section 1151: When, after the occurrence of an event, remedial or precautionary measures are taken, which, if taken previously, would have tended to make the event less likely to occur, evidence of such subsequent measures is inadmissible to prove negligence or culpable conduct in connection with the event. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am not at all confident that the FBI did much on this angle of investigation (Air America, CIA, SE Asia etc). We have no evidence that DBC had any connection with Air America, CIA or SE Asia covert air ops, but there sure are some intriguing possibilities: Air America 727 jumps and smoke jumper CIA air ops involvement. Still, none of those intriguing facts prove that DBC was involved. I think the FBI has always wanted to solve this case and still does. I just don't buy the theory that they are conspiring to keep DBCs real identity a secret. I think even if DBC were a CIA or FBI agent they'd still want it solved and publicized, especially this long after the crime. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Actually, it kinda is. Let's say just for the sake of argument that we've NAILED the exit point and figured the winds all the way down to the ground in such a way that we have a circle of uncertainty 1 mile in radius. That is, I believe, WAY closer than is possible but just for the sake of argument let's say it is. Assume he went in with a no pull and impacted the ground belly first . . . you're looking for 2 square yards of evidence out of 3.1415 square miles. A needle in a haystack 38 years after the fact that may have been eroded over and washed away to nothingness. Assume he landed, was just fine and walked away. There's no reason to expect to find . . . anything . . . ever. Quade, You make good points about the ratio of Cooper stuff area compared to the area of search. It is indeed a needle in a haystack situation. Still, in spite all of the odds against it, the door placard was found and it is a lot more obscure than a rig. I think there is a rig out there somewhere. If Cooper went in as a no pull it is there and if he landed under an open canopy I still think he left it near his landing spot and hiked out without carrying anything that would easily identify him as a parachutist. Someday, unless it is all underwater, I think the rig may be found. If we just find Cooper's deployed canopy/rig and no other evidence we still will not know his identity or ultimate fate. I think Jerry is looking for a needle in a haystack, but who can say what he might find? He is working backwards from the money find site which is logical if you believe the money got to Tena bar naturally. I am sure Jerry has found all sorts of stuff in his searches. The fact that he links none of it to Cooper says a lot about his high standards for for Cooper evidence. This place just isn't the same without Snowmman. Come on, put in an appearance Snow. Sluggo squawked Mode C. Don't act like an F 117 or B 2. Let's see an echo. SAGE operators are standing by. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I agree Three-Seven-Seven. I, too, am concerned about Tina Mucklow. Her retreat from the world into a cloisted monestery, and subsequent near-total disappearance, is another clue to the DBC story. Was she abused? I suspect it strongly, One-third of all American women are raped or sexually abused at some point in their life. So, when I hear of beautiful young women clutching bibles at work, and then heading for the sanctuary, I immediately wonder if sexual abuse from childhood is at play. That scenario is certainly the one put forward by Cathy O'Brien, who claims she was intentionally abused as a kid to prepare her for MK ULTRA and CIA work. I doubt, though, that Danny C. abused Tina in any way aboard 305. He was a courteous gentleman, although, albeit, ready to blow everyone to smithereens. Rather, I think the abuse occurred prior to the skyjacking, and played a role in subsequent events. Bruce, When I tried to Google Cathy O'Brien and MK Ultra I was lead to the following website that makes us DBC lunatics look quite sane by comparison: http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:izgLsC3S9jIJ:www.theblackvault.com/ftopic-61121-0.html+Cathy+O%27Brien,+who+claims+she+was+intentionally+abused+as+a+kid+to+prepare+her+for+MK+ULTRA+and+CIA+work.&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Every time I read about some govt conspiracy plot theory that involves something like sexually abusing kids to prepare them for CIA experiments that will take place when they reach adulthood, my credibility gets strained to the snapping point. Do you believe claims such as the ones made by O'Brien? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK Georger. Peace. I do wonder if Tina was abused by Cooper in some way beyond the bomb threat etc. It is a pretty dramatic life change from stewardess to cloistered nun. Cooper may not have done anything more than is public. Just the thought of being blown up may have been trumatic enough. If I were a crew member who saw Cooper I'd worry that I'd be killed to prevent identification. The trauma, whatever it was, could also have affected her recollection. Time is also working against the accuracy of a memory of such a long past event. Many think Tina could ID DBC, or rule out a particular suspect, but that may not be a correct assumption. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am an altimter freak and have one of just about every one ever made for skydiving. I you jump with only one, the Altimaster II is a great choice. I think 2 altimeters is a great idea. Most of us who have been jumping long enough have had an altimeter stick or run out of battery power during a jump. Read this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3327998#3327998 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Smoke Jumper Beer. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3535569#3535569 There must have been a DBC beer somewhere. Anyone have an image of the label? Off topic? No way. Beer is relevant to any topic involving skydiving, right Orange? If given the choice between permanently giving up beer or their reserve, many jumpers would hang up the reserve. Having twice been saved by my reserve and never saved by beer, I would keep my reserve, but I might be in the minority. Where is Snowmman? Sluggo is also missed. Squawk ident, both of you. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I used to defend criminals. Before I became a lawyer I worked for two years as an intern in a Public Defender's office in a very tough town, the one where four cops were recently killed by one parolee. In my opinion NO laws, licensing, restrictions etc will keep criminals from getting guns. You might make guns harder to get, but they will get them, just like they get illegal drugs. You can affect price but you will never extinguish the supply through laws. I never met one felon who cared a bit about gun laws. If they wanted a gun they got a gun, one way or another. Just being a felon in possession of a firearm was enough to put them in prison for a long time, but they all thought they'd never get caught. If criminals can't buy guns they will steal them. Making it harder for them to get guns is laudable, but often misguided. Too many of those laws impose burdens on law abiding gun owners that are not offset by any significant workable deterrent aginst criminals acquiring firearms. Just to show you an extreme, I once represented a convict who managed to obtain a pistol and ammo INSIDE Folsom Prison. I hope that makes the point. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

NO. Only meeting with Tina will I let this go. Jo, I hope that's not true. In your lifetime we may learn who Cooper really was. If that happens and it rules out Duane, surely you will let it go won't you? Give yourself more than one exit. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You are right Georger, I am not neutral. Besides, I doubt Tina wants to be interviewed by anyone so it is likely a moot point. I have a couple of technical professional and sport licenses/degrees attesting to at least minimal levels of competence, but you know how lax those license tests and graduation requirements are. My competence is far better judged here by you. OK, the masquerade is over. I confess. I am incompetent. Now can we be more friendly and collegial? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

As much as Jo would prefer that she personally conduct a DBC interview with Tina, it is better that such an interview be conducted by a NEUTRAL person, one who has no vested interest in the outcome. Even if there are witnesses, an interview conducted by a party who has an interest in the outcome runs a high risk of influencing the witness, even unconsciously. Tina might see Jo's anguish/angst and wish to soothe it by answering in a certain way that might relieve Jo's stress. Compassion is a wonderful human quality, but it is counterproductive in investigative interviews. The way I see it, one should do everything possible to eliminate or at least minimize emotional factors that can influence answers. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, Really liked your story about Renny. Sounds like he was an exceptional dog. Good for you in ignoring the vet's advice to put him down. I really like dogs and there are others here who also do. Why did you say that you expect DBC stuff to be found within 100 ft of a river? Are you saying that everything gets pushed down towards rivers by rain and gravity? Just want to be sure I understood what you were saying. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The only thing I am expecting to be eventually found is Cooper's parachute gear. If he survived the jump, I expect he wanted to get out of the landing area and back to civilization ASAP. He'd just want to prevent the gear from being spotted in an air search. It wouldn't have made sense for him to bury it deep. That would take time and hard work better expended on egress and escape. Human remains get scattered by animals. I think the rig would not be so tempting to scavengers, although mice like shredding canopy material to make nests. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Thanks for the informative reply Jerry. I am convinced that Coopers parachute gear is out there with or without him. The gear alone may not give us any usable clues as to his identity. Wouldn't that be frustrating. The discovery of that pilot's skull above ground gives me some encouragement that whatever is out there has a good chance of being eventually found if it's not in a river. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, Assuming Cooper pulled and landed under a deployed canopy I think he wouldn't go to very much trouble to conceal the canopy and harness/container, just enough to obscure it from immediate discovery from an air search. Maybe he did as little as gathering it up and covering it with leaves or debris. If this were done in 1971 in the area you are searching, would the gear now be under a layer of decayed organic material? How deep in your estimate? I just wonder if you have a reasonable expectation of being able to see any remains of Cooper or his gear without digging. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

G, What's wrong with a bit of kindness or tolerance? I don't agree with any of Jo's Duane is Cooper theories, but see no need to attack, deride or ostracize her. The level of anger hatred disgust that Jo seems to arouse surprises me. This is just an obscure forum, not real life. All she does is post words. Hard to see why that is so enraging to some. ""Carnage"? "Vomiting"? Come on, this is just an Internet forum. You can ignore Jo. If I irritate you, you can also ignore me. Or, you could try tolerance. It is good for reducing hypertension. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger states:

Jo Orange and Georger make some really logical points about the tie. It is like leaving a lucky penny or a rabbits foot on the plane. The item may have meant a lot to the person who left it, but it is so common an item. How could Cooper expect such a common item to have such significance to anyone learning of its presence on the plane? My reference to Watergate was just analogizing the Jefferson breakin to a more famous political burglary. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

So 377? Where are you? You are usally quick to encourage Jo - seen Jo's latest post about the history of the tie!? In your opinion, is Jo's story reliable, subject to analysis or verification? Or is this a breakthrough and a link Jo has to something really BIG? Has Snow had a hand in this? Could radar help? Georger, Even I have my limits. Duane as a Folsom prisoner smoke jumper pushed them. Duane having possession of the MLK assassination rifle stretched them beyond their breaking point. But this Jefferson MO Watergate tie deal is just too loopy for me to follow. Can you explain it to me? Please? How does it put Duane on the NORJACK plane?? Beautiful hot calm clear weather in SF today. The gorgeous bay views were sweetened by a WW 2 B 17 bomber making low level tour flights all day long. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.