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more from copied thread: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-208021.html chetlaw Junior Charter Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: San Clemente, California Posts: 468 iTrader: (0) 0% Quote: Originally Posted by ETriggs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmImn...eature=related Wow. I am pretty sure the rear air stairs on a DC-9 is similar to a 727. DB Cooper may have made it after all. In 1981, I worked on the movie "Pursuit of D.B. Cooper." I doubled Treat Williams for the skydiving scene. I, and four other stunt doubles, jumped from a 727 over a town named "Groveland" just east of Yosemite, CA. We each made two jumps from the 727 from 8,000 feet. I have no doubt D.B. Cooper made it. Several of us "old timers" in the sport believe we know D.B. Cooper's true identity. __________________ Chet MK II 427 Windsor, Dual Quads, TKO 600, Three link ******************** 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Found this thread: 02-06-2009, 07:56 PM Several of us "old timers" in the sport believe we know D.B. Cooper's true identity. oh? do tell... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MVM02-06-2009, 09:02 PM C'mon and fess up. Who is he? As an aside: There used to be a bar in San Jose (CA) called DB Cooper's. Over the dance floor they had a mannequin suspended spread eagled from a parachute above him that was attached to the ceiling. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chetlaw02-07-2009, 07:42 AM His name is (or was) Norton Thomas. He dissapeared about 20 years ago while ferrying a Beech D18 to Hawaii. His dissapearance was, to say the least, pretty suspicious; He reported engine problems to the other Beechcraft accompanying him and just dissapeared. This happened at night and those of us who knew Norton like to believe he headed for South America with the money. Anyway, Norton was from California, but moved to the Northwest about 5 years before the highjacking. He was a highly experienced skydiver and pilot. He was a colorful and fun-loving character who knew a lot of low people in high places as well as high people in low places. He was a lawyer who either had been, or at least had connections with the Hells Angels out of Oakland. His girlfriend, Jeannie McCombs, was a national skydiving champion who was killed in a skydiving accident in Elsinore California shortly after working on the film "Private Benjamin." When I saw the composite drawing of D.B. Cooper, the first thing I thought was "that's Norton Thomas." He was a dead-ringer for the composit. Evidently the FBI thought so too because they questioned him more than once. He never admitted it to me or anyone I know, but he never denied it either (except, of course to the FBI). As far as I know, the consensus of those who knew him is that he was the one most likely to have pulled it off. The skydiving community is pretty small and was much smaller back in 1971. For D.B. Cooper to have pulled it off, he would have had to have had some skills and knowledge (or, just maybe have been awfully lucky). Norton had those skills and knowledge and was just nuts enough to have done it. I haven't thought of Norton in years, thanks for asking. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ETriggs02-08-2009, 03:37 AM His name is (or was) Norton Thomas. He dissapeared about 20 years ago while ferrying a Beech D18 to Hawaii. His dissapearance was, to say the least, pretty suspicious; He reported engine problems to the other Beechcraft accompanying him and just dissapeared. This happened at night and those of us who knew Norton like to believe he headed for South America with the money. Anyway, Norton was from California, but moved to the Northwest about 5 years before the highjacking. He was a highly experienced skydiver and pilot. He was a colorful and fun-loving character who knew a lot of low people in high places as well as high people in low places. He was a lawyer who either had been, or at least had connections with the Hells Angels out of Oakland. His girlfriend, Jeannie McCombs, was a national skydiving champion who was killed in a skydiving accident in Elsinore California shortly after working on the film "Private Benjamin." When I saw the composite drawing of D.B. Cooper, the first thing I thought was "that's Norton Thomas." He was a dead-ringer for the composit. Evidently the FBI thought so too because they questioned him more than once. He never admitted it to me or anyone I know, but he never denied it either (except, of course to the FBI). As far as I know, the consensus of those who knew him is that he was the one most likely to have pulled it off. The skydiving community is pretty small and was much smaller back in 1971. For D.B. Cooper to have pulled it off, he would have had to have had some skills and knowledge (or, just maybe have been awfully lucky). Norton had those skills and knowledge and was just nuts enough to have done it. I haven't thought of Norton in years, thanks for asking. Did he file anything like a flight plan? It would be interesting to see if there is a Beechcraft in the drink where he claims to have gone down. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- chetlaw02-08-2009, 07:33 AM Did he file anything like a flight plan? It would be interesting to see if there is a Beechcraft in the drink where he claims to have gone down. I'm assuming he filed a flight plan. He was one of two twin Beeches they were ferrying to Hawaii. My understanding is that there was no sign of him or his plane when the rescue personell got to the location where he reported engine trouble. The other aircraft wisely continued on. There was no way he could have circled until the rescue personell arrived. Also, it was nighttime. No one actually saw him go down. The circumstances just add fuel to the idea that he headed for S. America. As for finding the location where he called in his "mayday": its an awful big ocean, and back then they didn't have GPS and some of the position location devices they do today. Look how long they have been trying to find Amelia Earhart's plane. *************************** 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Mike Steele was a high school classmate of mine. He died (according to reports) in a pirate AFF jump at Fremont CA. I've read all I could find on the accident. Sounds like cloudy conditions, neither Mike or his student had an altimeter, no AAD. Student tumbled, Mike caught him at low alt, Mike pulled student's ripcord then his own. Student was saved and landed OK, Mike impacted before line stretch (on main). Mike jumped into a night football game at our high school on a pirate demo. That wasnt an easy one either (right under the approach to SFO) and no good outs. Mike was an amazingly good gymnast too and helped our team win a lot of competitions. He was a nice guy in high school, not stuck up liike some of the star athletes. I couldn't find anyone who would train me to jump under age 18. Mike obviously figured out a way around that. I made my first jump within days of my 18th birthday in 1968 and still jump regularly. I was on a load with jeanni in the 70s. I knew she was a star in the sport and I was too shy to even say hello to her. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

http://www.mazekni.com/video/Dat-UPEB15M/The-Real-DB-Cooper.html 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I say fake, any other opinions? The youtube production is s bit too slick. The voice and style is NOT Snowmman's so he is arguably off the hook, although it would not be beyond him to do electronic voice alteration or use a hired gun to narrate. It just doesnt have the look and feel of any forum poster's work. Comments? People are so into geo caching and tresure hunting in general. When I was a kid I used to dream about finding the Lost Dutchman's Mine after reading about it. Our family went camping in the CA Gold Country and I spent every minute looking for gold. Actually found a minor amount. An old timer told me to dig up some sand and gravel on the dry outside bends of the river and pan it out with water. He said centrifugal force throws the gold to the outside and few amateurs look in the dry riverbed, preferring to pan in the wet sand. Can you imagine how crazy this critter cam stuff could get? I'll fake a vulture or coyote cam and have it pecking or pawing at some old bones and NB6 or NB8 harness hardware including a right hand outboard pull setup. I'll ask Amazon to give me some Washougal footage to mix in for authenticity. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Raven: http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Translation:Craft_electronics_raven_txt/en Old Crows Assn: http://www.crows.org/ 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Crows can be trained to search for money. http://m.npr.org/story/87878028 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Vicki, How was the dumped couterfeit money traced to your Dad? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No reflection on Vicki but I think the skunk video is fake. It would be dirt simple to retrace the skunks steps in the video and go right to the alleged money site. Interesting that the turtle camera shown is a type now very widely used by skdivers to shoot freefall videos. http://pointofviewcameras.com/gopro-hd-hero-960.html It isn't especially well suited for small animal POV video because of it's large size compared to pen cams. Not sure what the skunk cam was or if there even was one. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Vicki, Please post the photos here. Did your father have any aviation connections? Welcome to the forum. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Good for you Robert. Well done. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Outstanding. A true inspiration! 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

A most excellent idea Farflung, like most that you have. We can get FAA waivers for timed out and non noise compliant biz jets. Hell, why not do some acro in a dirt cheap Lear 23 or 24 and pop the chute when things get out of hand. Crack a spar? No big deal as long as it is above 5000 AGL. We'd have to get some drogue and reefing set ups to avoid high speed chute failures, but the technology is already there in military apps. Load it up with waivered pax and call it a Flydiving Tandem. There are a lot of good places for an FZ, notably Mojave and Tucson which have a ready suppply of cheap semi airworthy sacrificial airframes. I've seen timed out 747-100s going for less than a new Cessna 182. Think BIG. As for the valets and personal assistants, don't risk a lost election by hiring an undocumented person. A local strip club can serve as your hiring hall. I think Perris can revitalize their flagging DC 9 jumpship operation by offering DBC fantasy tandems. They light up the strip at night, outfit some old Crown Vics with light bars, hire cheap wannabe actors (zillions of em anywhere in So Cal) to play FBI and flight attendant roles. The demands are made, money gets delivered, you confidently down your third Makers Mark, smoke one more Raleigh and let the party begin. It's all shot on HD. With modern editing you could fill the plane with DBC tandems and it could be made to look like you were the only one aboard. If you dress the tandem master in all blue I'll bet you could edit them out too. You'd be the star of your own DBC jump movie. $2500 a head and the plane doesnt schedule a flight until at least 20 tandems have put down deposits. What do ya think Farflung? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I read that one kind (Cirrus?) could not be relicensed after a deployment even if it landed 100% intact. Trying to see if that is just urban aero rumor or fact. I've heard that this outcome may be responsible for failures to deploy the aircraft chutes when they should have been deployed. Imagine if you were permanently grounded if you ever came down on a reserve. Bet we'd see a lot of marginal main canopies landed. Not a perfect analogy because its the plane not the pilot which gets grounded, but if you only had liablity and not hull insurance I can see some reluctance to pull silver in that plane. During a loss of control in VMC: "I'll hold off on the chute for just a few more seconds, I KNOW I can recover this." Video of flaming wreck coming down under chute after mid air collision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86kyoogPvM&feature=related 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Brilliant! I heard you have to scrap a plane after deploying a ballistic rescue chute. Is that true? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don Kirlin had to get access to Boeing's 727 stairs down flight test data before he could get the FAA to allow him to offer 727 jumps at the WFFC in Quincy Illinois. I tried to get Don to talk about this but got no response to my emails. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The demi-god pilots always get the hot girl, one way or another. We commoners have to select from the leftovers. They didnt have flight attendants on B 52s, so what did you guys do for amusement on those long missions? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I hope Farflung will respond to you Jo. He has flown big jets. My guess is the speed loss from stair and open door drag would be only a few knots, certainly less than 10. Jet airliners are on autopilot most of the time and maneuvers such as climbs, turns and descents are done by making inputs to the autopilot rather than hand flying the plane with the control column and rudder pedals. The autopilots have an altiitude hold feature to assure maintaining level flight, so you wouldnt get a lot of altitude variation unless the power settings were insufficient to hold the set altitude. When I jumped from a DC 9 jet I didn't feel any deceleration at all when they opened the cabin door, but it wasnt faired into the fuselage outer surface, it was inside and at the top of the stairwell area. The stairs had been removed and we just jumped out of the now open area where the stairs were normally stowed. We had good looking flight attendants too, but none quite as appealing as Tina. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I'd grab a stack of bills and offer some to Tina (as a test). When she declined I'd know I had found a very attractive woman of good character and figure out a way to connect with her later sans disguise. Isnt that what you'd do Farflung? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

R99 said: It sure would be hard to egress undetected from your landing area and get back to civilization without getting caught unless you had help from an accomplice. There is another possibility though. Gossett was in the Army (reserves?) and could have jumped into Ft Lewis (very unilkely to be noticed at night) and blended in. He might have even left a car there and a uniform. Wasn't Ft Lewis consistent with a very early jump post takeoff? I don't see convincing evidence that Gossett was Cooper, but there are viable Norjack escape plans that could have been pulled off without an accomplice. If Gossett was Cooper his Ft Lewis jump plan didnt work out because the pilots would not take off with the stairs lowered. By the time Cooper got the stairs lowered post takeoff the plane was far away from Ft Lewis. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote: Great slot machine graphic Farflung! Silicon Valley is the undisputed epicenter of Mid Life Crisis Manhood. We have a busy Ferrari dealer to prove it. These paunchy Porsche pilots don't do comb-overs, they get follicle transplants from the top docs and are not strangers to liposuction needles. It's funny to watch them shopping at Nieman Marcus with their young trophy babes who are apparently so passionate about their man that they cant be bothered with mundane things like looking at price tags. These front line fighters against entropy and oxidation show up at the DZ for a tandem once in a while, but I cant recall ever seeing even one in an AFF class. Perhaps they buy a Harley instead. Most old skydivers are grown organically and got into the sport young. Look at the parking lot at any DZ on a Saturday. Exclude the tandem passenger cars. What you are left with wouldn't make a very appealing used car lot. This demographic doesnt appeal to affluent older guys in mid life crisis mode. That's too bad because we'd like to see their eye candy come to the DZ with them. I wonder if Cooper was in a mid life crisis? He sure didnt seem to focus on the money. You'd sure feel like a hot shot if you could pull off Norjack successfully. Problem is, you couldnt brag to women about it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote: Still don't know why the SAGE system wasn't used for the intercept. F 106s had it. SAGE allowed ground based USAF radar and computers to control the F106's autpilot and steer it to a perfect target intercept. A two way data link was established between the F106 and the SAGE ground station. As I recall a lumbering turboprop driven C 130 Herc transport was the only Air Force plane that actually intercepted and followed the 727. That must have really embarrased the F106 wing at McChord. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

G wrote: Real skydivers can be vicious cannibals who eat members of their own tribe. I think every dropzone moderator has been attacked, ridiculed and provoked often for no good reason. It's a thankless task being a kennel keeper at a pit bull diet farm. I actually think Quade would make a fine appellate judge. He sentences too harshly to be considered a fair trial judge. He does have a certain Solomonic quality in his reign as a moderator. Do you see it Georger? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Correct. Remember the Soviet intercept of Korean Airlines flight 007? It gets dicey in cloudy conditions. One of a pair of USAF jets dispatched to do a practice intercept of a civilian plane off the East Coast in clouds collided with the target and caused it to crash killing all aboard. The interceptor was able to return to base where the ground crew found parts of human scalps embedded in wing seams. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dunno about a landing force simulator Sluggo, but if you jump a really big canopy in light non gusty winds and learn how to flare there should be close to zero vertical force when you alight. You'll be trained to look at the horizon, but I always look at the ground when I land and I've never biffed a flare. I take height cues from what I can resolve, blades of grass, pebbles, footprints in dirt etc. When I look at the horizon I cant judge height as well. Follow what your instructors tell you, not what I say. You can try alternatives later. If you are REALLY conservative on canopy choices (BIG) and jumping conditions (PERFECT) you will dramatically lessen your chances of a landing injury. As I've gotten older I've said no more often than I used to. Missing a load if the winds come up is no big deal. Femuring is. If you do hop and pops the opening shock is pretty low and you wont have much stress on your shoulder or upper body. Terminal openings can be a bit rougher. You cannot depend on them always being smooth. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.