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Jo wrote: Hmmm... Now that does sound like something Duane might do. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

One of my favorites is this one, when they run steam. Very scenic ride up the Noyo River canyon on an old logging line. http://www.skunktrain.com/ Not too far off topic. Jo has said Cooper followed RR tracks. She even thought Duane might have used a hand powered "Gandy Dancer" type rail car. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Didn't the city of San Francisco own the former State Belt Line for a while after they bought the Port of SF in 1969? The Belt Line RR was running until the early 90s. I like planes AND trains, same as when I was two years old. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

And one more thing Jo, I do feel sympathy for you having married someone who completely misrepresented themself to you. You have mentioned that it is embarassing and a disappointment, and new stuff keeps popping up to add to the anguish. You get ridiculed and chided a lot here, but this part of the Duane Weber story makes me feel compassion for you. Nobody likes being fooled on such an important matter and few who are fooled stand up and face it the way you have. I wish you could drop your quest and just enjoy the rest of your life, but you are on a mission and there is no stopping you. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: Yes Jo, that giddy reaction (if it was an accurate report) could certainly fit the Duane profile and doesnt seem consistent with a hardened experienced sophisticated criminal (like a Ted Braden type). Jumping off the stairs took extraordinary courage, but maybe it was just extraordinary fear of the consequences if he stayed aboard. It's tempting to call purse snatchers and other dirty rats "cowardly" but there is really no solid correlation. I honestly do not know if Duane was a scaredy cat or a brave guy when it came to physical risks. What light can you shed on this part of Duane's personality? I still don't think Duane hijacked NWA 305 in 1971. Three things argue against Duane having been Cooper: 1. No history of big complex crimes with extreme violence threats like Norjack had. This was a very different kind of crime and didnt fit Duane's MO or history at all. Sure, criminals can change and become more sophisticated, but few do. 2. No significant aviation or parachuting connection for Duane. Sure he might have known a pilot or acft mechanic, seen some jumping, but I dont see Duane figuring out altitude and gear/flap configurations for a 727 jump or putting on a rig like he had done it before. As an experiment I've asked a few people with no parachuting exposure to put on my NB 8 rig. It isnt a quick or easy task and it is immediately apparent that they have never done it before. This isnt a controlled scientific experiment but it does say something about Cooper's possible familiarity with parachute gear. 3. Duane does not closely resemble the FBI sketch. I don't put too much stock in number 3 because too many times I have seen witness directed composite sketches that turn out not even close to an accurate depiction of the criminal they saw. Still, he doesnt fit the description very well in my view. I can't prove Duane was not Cooper, but the burden of proof should be on the person making the extraordinary claim. That person is you Jo. I know you are trying, but so far you cannot put Duane in a chute or in the plane. Putting him in WA doesnt prove your case. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

In a prior post I pointed out the absurd almost self destructive risk Duane took by commiting serial petty crimes while on California parole. A smart crook might do one carefully planned big job and a dumb one would do a lot of small crimes, each one presenting a new opportunity for arrest. In CA you can get parole denied or revoked for just about anything that offends your PO, the board or the Governors office. It doesnt even have to be a crime. It's always been that way and still is. A new appellate case was just published in which a CA convict named Danny Hare got parole granted and then revoked for "possession of an altered toothbrush." Really! It wasnt a weapon, no blade, no pointed end, just a slit cut in it which he explained was used for cleaning his comb and cleaning his fan. This alternate explanation was considered "evasive". The board recommended him for paole and actually granted it but the Governors Office intervened and parole was denied. The appellate court thought the decision was harsh but declined to interfere with the wide discretion given to the Governor's office on parole matters. Most pickpockets ditch everything but the cash immediately so if they are caught they have a fighting chance of beating the case. Duane seemed to keep things tieing him to his crimes, which prosecutors just love. Duane looks kind of happy in his prison mug shots and also in his St Pete capture photo. Do others agree? Draw your own conclusions. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I agree with Joe on the high chances of a landing injury. We had plenty of students who broke ankles landing C9s onto clear fields on sunny days. If Cooper was found dead, was looted and buried, how do you explain the Tena Bar money? Another possibility is that Cooper lost all the money during the jump, but survived and escaped. He sure didn't seem well prepared to carry it. On my DC 9 jump my goggles got ripped off my face and ended up on top of my helmet. Other people lost various strapped on accessories. It was jumping into the blast for sure. So Georger is a professor. No surprise there. I'd bet physics or chemistry. Sometimes he acts like a person with tenure. Think about it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Yeah Robert, this isn't gonna be a gold mine that's for sure. You and Galen get a lot of flack here but both of you put forth your suspects as probables not certains. Both of you have done a lot if research. ALL Cooper research, even Jo's, has the potential for finding something that will solve Norjack. My stock military NB8 packed with a C9 canopy awaits Snow or Amazon when they are ready to make the rainy winter night jump into the Washougal Death Woods. I'll just watch the telemetry on the Internet. I am surprised some reality TV producer doesn't see a good idea here for a special. You could even have a bonus for making it to town without getting caught by people chasing a TV bounty prize for catching "Cooper". 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote about Georger: I don't know Georger's real life identity but I am certain that he thinks Astrology is baloney. I think you probably meant Astronomy. One is a science. The other isn't. I'd also bet Georger is not ex FBI or affiliated with the Bureau. I think the only FBI agent on the forum is Ckret and your complaints Jo resulted in our loss of this unique resource. Duane had a rich history of fake IDs and impersonations. He identified with being a crook. I defended hundreds of criminals and not one listed his occupation as crook as Duane did. Is it surprising that Duane would want to be remembered as a master of his profession? Nobody wants to check out as a loser. You still can't put Duane in a chute, any chute at any time, much less in NWA 305. I don't doubt the sincerity of your beliefs Jo, just their factual accuracy. KC, SP, TB, TM and other suspects had provable jump experience. Where is Duane's? There were never any CA State Prison inmate smoke jumpers. Nobody but you thinks there were. The history of US smoke jumping is very richly documented. Even records of Sheridan Peterson's stint are easy to find. Duane never made a parachute jump. Not one. Prove otherwise and I'll eat crow for a week. Georger can keep his anonymity. It's his option and doesn't affect his credibility in my view. He's a smart guy, obviously trained in science and when his temper is cool he has a wry sense of humor. I can't wait to see the TV production about KC. It will stir things up in the real world and might bear fruit in generating new DBC leads. This forum is not the real world. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: Jo, If Duane Weber were Dan Cooper, survived the jump and escaped without even being identified, why would he hang on to physical evidence that could tie him to the crime? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Thanks for the cleanup Georger, nice job. I wonder what that typewritten list was all about? Who were those people? A typed out list is a lot different than a serially updated address book. I'll wager it was part of a set up for some con job. Con artists often ingratiate themselves with potential victims by claiming to know common aquaintances and having details about them such as where they live, names of kids, relatives etc. I still think Duane's connection with Norjack may have been a con hatched long after Cooper did the job. It may have taken him to WA to learn some facts about the area and be able to weave a credible story about knowing the area. I can't figure it all out but I go back to Jo's claims that notes in Duane's handwriting were found in a local library book about DBC. Something tells me he was doing research for a con job. "Maybe I was the guy on the ground." Remember that? Wouldnt that be a good start to a con? DBC died during or after the jump, you disposed of Cooper's body and hid the money, need a "partner" to finance its recovery etc etc. You can describe the area with great detail... 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Smokin99, Please tell us how you found the article so we can all can sharpen our search skills. The undisputed Jedi Master of Cooper online searching is Snowmman. Snow taught me many things but would not hold my hand on searching. He'd just stay cryptic stuff like "Feel the FORCE, Luke." I should have found Sheridan Peterson before Snow did. I was looking for Boeing, smoke jumper, skydiving and all the right stuff but I couldn't even find Sheridan AFTER Snow did. I had to look at his his actual search results and backtrack. The article you found gave a lot of info about Duane completely uncolored by Jo. What we saw was a pathetic petty thief and con artist who couldnt even pull off a successful ten dollar purse snatch. Decide for yourself if that was a young Dan Cooper. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

99 sure does deserve a lot of credit. I've had one of those autosearch things running on Google for a long time and it didnt spit up this infomative article on Duane Weber. I am not a psychologist, but there seems to be a compulsive nature to Duane's criminal actions. Perhaps he got a huge irresistable high from pulling off a theft or con job. or by doing a successful impersonation. He knew from prior arrests, convictions and sentences that he really wasnt very good at it, but he goes right back to it as soon as he gets out of jail. When I did criminal defense I occasionally got a case where a very wealthy person was caught shoplifting. It had to be a thrill thing, there was no rational economic reason justifying such a risk. They usually had some story about having tried on a garment and forgetting to take it off before they left the store etc etc, but they were really just wealthy thieves. The system (in CA) usually goes easy on them if it's a first time case. They go into a diversion program, attend some classes, perhaps do some volunteer work and the record gets expunged, no recorded criminal conviction. I had one case that didnt go so smoothly. It was a wealthy woman who had what the store dectectives call a "rig", a garment modified to conceal stolen items (often a concealed access slit and internal bag in the lining of a coat). She got caught and was charged with burglary, because they could prove (from the rig) she entered the building with intent to commit a crime therein therfore it was unlawful entry etc etc. It took a lot of steppin, but I got the charges reduced to misdeameanor theft and she was accepted for diversion. I've often wondered if NORJACK was a thrill crime and had no compelling economic motivation. Cooper didnt seem all that interested in the actual money (surprised to get it, offering some to Tina, apparently unprepared to carry it on a high speed exit). 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am always accusing Duane of being the crook who couldnt shoot straight, but swiping that law enforcement officer's badge and ID? Pretty slick, I must admit. The ID photo looks enough like Duane to work in most situations. I'll bet there is a story about how Duane managed to get that item. Wonder if Duane also had someone's USPA D license? Very useful when showing up at a new DZ to do some NORJACK practice jumps. I wonder if deep down in his subconscious Duane preferred prison to outside? Look at his behavior while on parole. Look at how often he gets caught. Look at the stupid risks he was taking (serial small dollar pickpocketing). Every crime is new chance for arrest and sure enough he gets arrested. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Just how solid is your source Robert? I've heard rumors that Tina turned out just fine. You make her sound disabled. Are you sure that is accurate information? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger, Before you idealize chicken society consider from where the term pecking order arose. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Even back then, states liked to ship bad boys to other states to serve time for parole violations in those places rather than give them taxpayer paid room and board where they committed their latest caper, especially if the local crime was small time. If you violate CA parole by conduct in FLA you can be sentenced to do more time in CA on the basis of violating the terms of your CA parole. One condition of parole and probation is: OBEY ALL LAWS. Also, with the new crimes, stadard of proof to get a conviction on the new crime is 'proof beyond a resonable doubt' For parole violation it is laughable, you can sneer at your PO or be ten minutes late for an appointment and get some more prison time. Verrry easy to go back if you screw up. No jury trial, just a revocation hearing. Soooo many data points on Duane's lack of skills in his self admitted profession: CROOK. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Brrrr... Bad boys, bad boys, Whatcha gonna do when they come for you? http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=Ej5SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=OXYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5721,6066096&dq=duane+weber&hl=en 2nd Jul 30, 1957 Duane Weber article same details as first. But includes some more details. Says he was arrested in FL once before in 1949 also says he was returned to prison in Ohio where he had escaped Says he served time in Ohio for robbery and CA for grand larceny. Was on parole from both. Duane never was arrested for those coat swaps Jo witnessed. He wasnt a complete bumbler. Jo, were you aware of all the reported criminal history? Did Duane fully inform you? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Farflung wrote: Which is why you were paid to sit up front in the left seat of a multimillion dollar airplane and I pay to ride in the back of a beat up Beech 18 with a bunch of farting skydivers. When will I ever learn? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Good find 99. Was that posted here before or did you find something that Snowmman missed, if there is such a thing? From a ten dollar pickpocket who just served six years, couldn't do a year on parole without picking up a couple of Miami warrants and ends up getting caught red handed in St Pete... to succesfullly pulling of one of the most innovative and daring crimes of the twentieth century... If there were a Nobel Prize in crime I'd consider putting Duane ahead of Bernie Madoff. Did he take a Tony Robbins course or something? Nah, Tony was only 11 in 1971. Maybe Dale Carnegie? Werner Erhard? L Ron? Who was Duane's Guru, his mentor, the person responsible for one of the most amazing professional improvment stories in the history of crime? It wasnt Mick Jagger. Duane ignored his sage advice: "I stuck around St. Petersburg When I saw it was a time for a change " 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger transmitted: Absolutely OM. I just cranked up the DSP and now everything is intelligible. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Come on Farflung. Even if KC was gay, surely you can excuse him for wanting to gaze at the lovely Tina just one more time before jumping into the blast? If I knew how to handle the door I still would have asked Tina for some help. Bet you would have too. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Great, now we will become infringers every time we quote Jo. Maybe she has finally become a "public figure" and we get more slack. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It is great to see you so energized Jo. As usual you provide excited adjectives and predictions of confidential blockbuster events about to happen, but reveal few, if any, relevant facts. It's just the way you are. I don't think it's always a conscious manipulative tease. Your message below puzzles me. "..if anyone of you had a child who was convicted of a crime you knew he did not comment(sic) and sentenced to die for the crime - would you not fight for him to the very end and even after his termination?" Sure, we'd all fight for an inoocent condemned or executed person, especially a family member, but you are fighting to convict someone who went to his grave untarnished with even an accusation that he had committed a violent felony hijacking. Odd juxtaposition. Do you see the two tasks as morally equivalent? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Priceless Farflung. That photo of the wood cased interphone is so cool. Wood still had a place even in supersonic jets. The Phillipine AF bought USN surplus Vought F8U Crusader jets, but didn't keep up with anti corrosion maintenance. Those jets were patched up with carved and shaped mahogany plugs and faired over with resin and/or sheet metal. I actually saw a leading edge corrosion repair that was made this way. Wow, those Boeing layoff numbers that Orange found from 70-71 were HUGE. I do recall the big news when the US pulled out of the SST race. I recall seeing an amazing sight at JFK in the early 80s, a Concorde taxying behind a PBA passenger carrying DC 3. I've heard that the KC 97 tanker did test refuelings of the supersonic B 58 Hustler bomber, which would be a similar juxtaposition of modern supersonic jet and ancient piston technology, but I cant find a photo. Maybe Farflung can dredge one up. Georger, Sluggo, what is the Science Team up to? Why did they go silent? Did they disband or stop work? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.