LongWayToFall

Maybe the experienced jumper already knows enough about the topic to make it happen without have to ask, or doesn't care and does it without following the regulations? Or maybe they are just comfortable with jumping at the dz and have no ambitions of jumping in other areas? I can tell you that someday I WILL jump at this location, its just a matter of how much stuff I will have to go through to do it. Its possible that someone without as much drive as myself is easily deterred by fees/complications. Don't knock the inexperienced dreamers!

So you only received verbal permission from the property owner? It seems like these are the things I would need to do to pull this off: 1. Because getting out of the plane with the door on would pose a significant hazard, as well as making it easier to damage the plane (Something I don't want and the pilot definitely doesn't want) I would want to secure a STC for operating with the door removed. I thought I read earlier that it only costs $50, is this true? I will want to find a local pilot that isn't going anywhere, so I could use his plane again at a later date. 2. Get permission from the land owner where I plan on landing. Do we know if this has to be in a written form that is specific or not? ie Can farmer bob write on binder paper "Its ok for da parashoots to come down in da field" Or would it need to contain specifics regarding the exact jump? If verbal is permitted I would much rather use that way of securing permission...... 3. Secure NOTAM, I still need to research some of the details with this. 4. Announce to the ATCs that are controlling any airspace I plan on falling or parachuting through 1-24 hours ahead of time, and also several minutes before the jump is made. The only thing that seems "loose" is the property deal, if I burn in on someone's property that gave me written permission, they are liable correct? I would hope not but you know how laws are. Also, can you be fined for having an out landing? I don't see why you couldn't get permission to land in an area that has a low probability of being successful (a small field) that borders an area that you will certainly be able to make (a large field). DZs do this all the time with designated "outs" that I am sure they do not have expressed permission to use

Jump without it! Or rent gear.... Or see if someone with an extra rig that will let you borrow a cypress, but you will have to pay for a couple open/closes on the reserve... I thought I heard only 20-30 bucks though each from a rigger. You gotta jump!

My blazer is a diesel, and has a 26 gallon tank. Awhile back I had a full tank jacked from me, I was pretty pissed. I hope those lame fuckers didn't know it was diesel, and fucked there car(s) up, they can't be that smart if they haven't found gainful employment to supply fuel for their vehicles in a manner that doesn't involve possible jail time.

Certainly, a middle ground is what is correct. Letting your car idle for an hour and flooring it when dead cold are both incorrect things to do. I am just trying to suggest, that people need to be careful with the process they use to warm up the engine. I would consider an engine that is "warmed up" to be capable of full throttle operation without damage. If you start your car and let it idle for 1 minute before you drive it gently, you might be loosing a very small amount of mileage off of your engine. However, if you start your car and drive it overly hard, it is possible the engine will be destroyed that very same day. There are some dumb people out there, and I see allot more of them damaging their engines by abuse than letting it idle too long. These days with the cost of gas, people wasting it by idling are becoming much less frequent, its too bad a law like this has to come about at an inopportune time. Maybe the people of the town (county, state, whatever area the law covers) feel like the government cares more. Woo Hoo! ban people wasting fuel! Woooooooo

An electric oil pump that primed the system prior to the engine firing is a great idea. I have heard of them being used on aircraft before, but never seen any hard data. The manufacturers wish for everything in the car to definitely last the warranty period, after that they don't care. Most engines though will last a pretty long time, with proper care. Did you know that manufacturers almost loose money on car sales? All the profit comes from parts.....

If you are running an old vehicle (95 or so or older) on biodiesel, you must be careful to convert your system over to viton seals, if you don't, it will definitely mess things up in your fuel system. Biodiesel is a great solvent

So, lets see. You say something that is obviously wrong regarding the operation of engines, and then when I call you on it, all you can do it retaliate by saying that I am a "straw man" and that I am wrong. When I bring up many facts that have to do with what is going on in the engine as it warms up, all you do is say that my reference of "aircooled dirt bikes"(which I didn't reference but will take credit for anyways because it makes a good example) and "WW2 planes" are no good, for an unknown reason. So, what I am saying right now, is that you do not have the education and ability to contradict what I have said with facts. Period. What is amazing is that you refuse to back your comments, and instead attack me directly. Back on topic: the law sucks. People buy gas, to burn it. I'm waiting for the FAA to have someone out at the dz with a stopwatch for jump planes. Vidiots, prepare to haul ass between loads!

Well, saying that 80% of engine damage in a common engine is caused by startup, and never shutting down your engine will make it last 5x longer is much different. Damages to the engine that would relate to inadequate oil pressure, such as start up, would be spun main and rod bearings (almost always rod though, due to the way it actuates) as well as camshaft bearing damage. Things that would relate to simply running an engine for a long time, would be worn piston rings, leaky valves from buildup, wear to the valve train, etc. Did you know that there are engines for certain generator systems that are designed to run for 10, 20, 40 years? I heard 100 but that may be a stretch. What is comes down to, is that the engine manufacturer is only interested in making any one part as strong as the rest, why have cylinders that last forever when it will throw a rod bearing after X hours? It will be a waste of money. I think your picture of the inner workings of the babbitt bearing are flawed, yes they do have a sucking action that helps to circulate it around the bearing, but pressure is absolutely crucial for them to work. Check out the image on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_metal The channel that is in the center of the bearing is pressurized with whatever the oil pump is putting out, and that oil gets shot out the sides while at the same time acting as very tiny ball bearings. The bigger the explosion in the combustion chamber, the harder the crank is pushing to the outside of the bearing, and the more oil pressure is needed to prevent metal to metal contact. When the engine is first started, there is a small amount of oil on the bearing, and this will usually prevent contact. However, I believe that when the engine is warm and the oil is thin, it is much easier for the crank to "squirt" the oil out in between, and cause damage. The thick oil in the bearing that is there during a cold startup is actually helpful, though the pump takes much longer to supply oil pressure to the bearing. So, you can have your choice, leave the motor running and wear the rings, or shut it off and wear the bearings when you restart.

His temp gauge has barely moved because his engine is still cold, not because his radiator is only barely warmed up. Only when the thermostat has opened does the radiator see any action.

Granted, you can build an injection system that does not rely on engine temperature, although it will not be efficient. This is why auto manufacturers from the "60s and before" used it, it was simple. Also, with air cooled engines, it is very hard to determine what the temp of the engine actually is. What do you read, a combination of all the head temps and average them? What about EGTs? it is too hard and as you know, aircraft engines must be as simple as possible so they just do without them. About water temp vs engine temp, granted, I can't remember a damn thing and I mostly attribute that to the joint I just smoked or possibly the 5th of rum that was disposed of in the trash factory I call my body. However, the coolant inside the engine block "water" and temperature of the engine, are identical. It is only when you factor in the temp of the radiator that things become complicated to describe accurately. I'm sure you understand where the confusion is coming from, and the fact that 99% of cars do not have a setup like yours does, with the gauge reading from the radiator. It is simply less useful. So why you gotta be the ball buster huh?

What, so you can't directly reply to me, you have to pretend you are pleading your case to a jury of keyboard jockeys? Yes you did reply to me. Your reply contained information that made it obvious that you are not competent when it comes to the internal workings of an engine. (idling does not warm it up) Therefore, I will suggest the notion of you shutting the fuck up or providing information that is worthwhile. P.S. You never know what the freeway will be doing when you get on it, and if there is an 18 wheeler in the slow lane and a short merge, you can bet any "dumbshit" motorist is going to be using full power.

The largest cause of damage to an engine is the first few seconds of startup, because of the lack of oil pressure. This causes something like 80% of damage. If you put the car into drive before it builds adequate pressure, you are going to be doing major harm to the engine. This is also why you should wait a bit before pulling out, so that the oil temperature can increase and thin the oil out, supplying more to the bearings. So, you pull up to a place and have the option of shutting your car off or leaving it running, because you will only be inside for 3 minutes. You choose to shut the car off, and now when you restart it, you are causing damage. Multiply this by hundreds of times and it will catch up to you. Maybe that car left idling is going to still be on the road while yours is getting a new engine? Ok, so you start the car, put it into drive and head to the freeway. The length of that access road is going to be a major factor, if it happens to be only a few hundred yards long, the risk of cold seizing is very real, if you require using lots of throttle to get onto the freeway. The high rpms needed to cruise on the freeway (for most vehicles) also heats the engine up very quickly. Nobody is arguing if driving your car right after starting it is a good way to warm it up. It is obvious that it will warm up much faster than a car left idling. The question is, at what point will your engine get damaged if it is warmed up too quickly? This is different for all engines, and I doubt solid data exists for each one. So, if you actually care about your engine, you will not drive it like you normally do right after startup. Personally, I will not use more than %25 throttle until the temp gauge is it least registering, (120 degrees, thermostat set to open 190) and full throttle only when it is at 190 degrees. Bill- I think your hybrid is a lousy example of this situation, your gas pedal does not even directly control the engine's throttle. The computer can set it to whatever it wants, to make sure the engine warms up at a moderate pace. Most vehicles though, can certainly be destroyed by warming up too quickly

Your car's gauge is not an engine temperature gauge, it is a radiator temperature gauge. The designer of the vehicle was pretty fucking dumb, and I can bet that the vehicle is of the carburetor era, because any fuel injection system is going to need the temperature of the actual engine to make fueling changes. So, I WILL make general rules about engines, if it is fuel injected, it needs the temperature of the engine. Either you have 2 sensors, you are reading the gauge wrong or don't know what you are looking at, or the car has a carburetor.

I retract my previous statement and second this notion.

Actually, the water temp gauge measures the coolant temperature circulating the block, not the radiator. When the temperature reaches 190f (or whatever the thermostat is set at) it allows the cold coolant from the radiator to begin mixing with the hot coolant in the block, regulating the temperature. If your thermostat got stuck, your engine would overheat and you would think that you are still at outside temp (radiator temp) if the gauge was in the radiator

Where did I say air cooled dirt bike? I am referring to engines that do not have cooling fans and rely on vehicle speed to cool the engine. You are obviously very ignorant when it comes to engines, because if you did indeed know anything about them you would read my previous post about new engines using metals of dissimilar expansion rates and tight tolerances, which require even more of a warm up period to ensure that damage does not happen. Air cooled engines like airplane engines and older, air cooled dirt bikes make a great example of how the engine warms up, and have specific properties about them that require a larger piston to cylinder clearance as I have already pointed out. Did you know that after climbing to altitude and dropping jumpers, a cessna pilot must be very careful not to let the engine cool down rapidly? This is because the cylinders (which have the cooling fins on them) will decrease in temperature rapidly and shrink, while the pistons remain hot and expanded. The piston to cylinder clearance is reduced so much that the engine cold seizes, requiring the engine to be rebuilt. The same thing can happen on the ground before take off, if the piston is allowed to heat up and expand faster than the cylinder. Luckily, aircraft engines heat up very quickly because the cylinders are so thin. This is not the case in your car, where the sleeves/block is very thick. So, what this boils down to, is I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU to get into your car when it is completely cold (overnight) and start it immediately hopping on the freeway using full power and hold it there.

What type of car? running straight veggy oil on certain vehicles can destroy the injection pump, and will eventually destroy the engine on all vehicles. The problem comes from the carbon deposits left behind by the burning oil, eventually they will either build up enough to stick a valve open (destroying the valve and engine) or foul the rings, making you loose compression and most likely damaging the piston and cylinder. Don't expect more than 100,000 miles out of the engine, with it probably failing around 60-80k. This is why it is best to do this conversion on older cars with easily replaced engines. (I plan on buying a rabbit diesel pickup for this very purpose). If you decide to go ahead, make sure you do a good job of filtering the oil, and get some ph testers so you can test for the free fatty acid content of the oil, if there is too much it will erode the metal in the engine. Some research will give you what are acceptable levels

Electrics don't have to pay a fuel tax because they don't burn fuel

Thats still a valuable vehicle. As noted, some people need something with a large capacity and towing ability. Post it for blue book value and see what kind of interest you get

Long as possible relative to starting and putting it in drive right away. I can bet you anything that your preheater is supplying heat to the engine before it fires, or when the engine does start, it does not immediately going to full power. If it goes straight to full power from being completely cold, then the only way you could keep it from cold seizing would be to have a huge piston to cylinder clearance, which would have so much blow by you would have to keep topping your oil off at every fill up. This reminds me of some of the WW2 aircraft used on the carriers, they were built so that they could go to full power (take off) with a warmup of only several seconds to fend off attacking japanese planes. The oil consumption of these engines was so large that they burned something like 100+ gallons of oil per tank of fuel.

I stick to my statement, if you are going to be using full power such as getting onto a freeway, you must let the engine warm up a considerable amount. If you feel like searching online a bunch more (hopefully not on websites tailored for people who know nothing of cars) why don't you look up how long aircraft engines are required to warm up before they can take off (full power). Nevermind the fact that an aircooled engine warms up much faster than a liquid cooled one, also nevermind that the piston to cylinder clearance on these engines is much greater than on an automobile. Whatever time they give, you can bet is going to be less time then you would want to put full power to your car. There is a big difference between using the car for what it was designed for (full throttle) and only applying a small amount of gas to get you to the freeway or whatever local destination. The reason I said that you should let your engine warm up for a short time even if you are are planning on just slowing driving it, is because you need to let your oil warm up enough that the bearings are being sufficiently lubricated. When the engine is cold the oil is very thick, the oil pressure is very high, and the quantity of oil reaching the bearings is low.

Doesn't complete its warmup? are you kidding? if the engine had no cooling fans for the radiator, the engine would boil over and overheat leading to the destruction of the engine. This is why you cannot stay in one place too long on an engine in something like a dirt bike, you need to have air flowing into the radiator. Idling or driving, the engine completes it's warmup when the thermostat starts to open

Your retarded if you think its good for your engine to just start it up and drive. Your advice could cost someone thousands of dollars of damage. The engine takes many minutes to reach normal operating temperatures. Lets look at a comparison of old and new engines. Old engine: steel heads, steel pistons, steel block. As the engine warms up, everything is expanding at the same rate, and tolerances don't change much. New engine: Aluminum heads, pistons, and sometimes block but always with steel sleeves. When the engine is cold, the pistons fit loosely in the bore, because the aluminum expands at a much higher rate than steel does. When it is warm, the tolerances tighten up to what they should be. Also the cylinder head needs to expand to properly sandwich the head gasket. If you just hop in your car and floor it, you run the risk of the pistons expanding too quickly for the sleeves to match, and it will cold seize. This is very damaging to the engine and would most likely require it to be rebuilt. If there is too much pressure in the cylinders when it is cold, you also run the risk of blowing out the head gasket. Moral of story: Let your car warm up for as long as possible, 1 or 2 minutes is safe if you are only just barely hitting the gas driving around town, but if you plan on going onto the freeway as soon as you pull out of your driveway, let it warm up for a minimum of 5 minutes. If the temperature gauge in your car is not even off of the peg, then it is not smart to give it anything more than 1/4 throttle. It is not the governments place to regulate how long your car is idling for, for the purpose of burning less fuel and reducing polution. Makes me want to take my stimulus check and spend it on a drum of gas to dump on a pile of old tires

I should be there! Along with 1 other as well. Going to try to get my B license this week so I can do the night jumps.