BIGUN

That's how I count it. First jump in 1981, but took a nine year break, so... Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I'm calling Dr. Gresham to see if I can be on your Thesis Review Board. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I would vote based on individual maturity; not age. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Varying opinions versus hypocrisy. On the issue of tandems; I think its wrong to charge "by the pound" over "X" I beleive a longer FJC builds a feeling of confidence, rather than a feeling of luck and would increase student retention. On the issue of coaching and to answer Tonto's question. There was a time that we took new skydivers under our wing and didn't charge them for everything or even our slots to help them progress. There were those before us who helped us and out of respect for what they did for us and we should "Pass it forward." On a final note; it depends on one's definition of success. I know many a DZO that have sacrificed financial success; but have ben successful in teaching thousands of students with minimal (2) student injuries and zero fatalities after 30 years of teaching. I know DZO's that are financially successful, but there student churn rate is high. And, finally, there's the few that have been able to realize both. It's really not hypocrisy as much as differing opinions on viewpoints, kinda like packing a PC. There's about 100 different ways to do it, they all work... None 100% right, none 100% wrong. It just works for them. I doubt there'll ever be a day where all skydivers agree on all things. Course that's what makes us all part of this great dysfunctional family of socially-disconnected misfits. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Me - Road Rash Harley - 4K Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

You're right, Ron. I don't agree, disagree, nor understand. Nor, do I think my opinion will change those DZ's policies that are charging the fee. I've seen 5'4" 120lb females take guys my size and not charge a penny more. We keep talking about keeping students in this sport. What kind of taste does it leave someone with if they think they're going to be punished by the pound while their mates all paid a lesser rate? To me; it's the same as the guy who's your size who had to carry the same size rucksack as me in the Army getting paid more cause his percentage of ruck to weight ratio was seriously disparate to mine? No. He "chose'" to carry it. I think it's wrong to have a financial sliding scale for tandems based on weight. IMO, if I were 5'2" and 120, I'd either a) acknowledge that I could do the job for the standard rate, or 2) stand down. It's kinda like AFF - Instructors are taught; if you can't slick or weight down enough to stay with your student, then hand them off. And, I'll leave it with a safety question. 'At what point does one decide they should "stand down" if there is a financial incentive not to do so?' Just one man's opinion. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

15 yard penalty for BS. You're in the risk business. Don't try and sell me on it's more work so the student should pay more. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I still don't understand the reason why. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Please help me to understand the reasoning behind this? Most of the DZ's I've worked at don't do this. It's a flat fee; height must be proportionate to weight and combined weight of the TI & Student cannot exceed max recommended weights. Do you charge less if they're under "X" lbs? Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Catholic School Survivor And, that was a time where if the Nuns gave ya a whuppin; they called Mom and told her. Then ya gots the whuppin from Mom or Dad cause the Nuns had to whup ya. I was a defiant little turd. Dad used to come home and hang the strap on the coat closet door knob cause he knew he was gonna need it at some point during the evening. I think he knew he was in trouble when Mom told me to get ready for bed one night and I just sat there. After a few minutes, Dad says, "I'll bet that strap knows where the bedroom is," and I looked at the strap and said, "Where strap?" He had to cover his face and turn away so I wouldn't see him chuckling. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Catholic School Survivor Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Kinda off-thread, but on your subject. This was done in Tulsa years ago. A well-respected Instructor opened a store front training classroom and would then package up students in a bundle - call DZs and see who would give the best rate. His place was open for several years. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

WingsEXT They'll build it to disparate sizes of mains/reserves. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

I only have one picture... that one in my mind when after Airborne School decided to take up skydiving and the Papillon was my student canopy... Looking up and thinkiing... "Man, there's a lot of holes bigger than my helmet in this one. I wonder if this is gonna hurt?" Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

cucu software will do the necessary conversions. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Control Panel\Printer\Add a Printer Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

SkyDiving Stuff while at Austin and Edwards By Dr. Eco 1. How I got started: Moe came back from California in 1958 with a couple of modified Air Force surplus parachutes and talked me in to making some jumps. At Casterville airport all the instructions Moe gave me was "When you leave the plane count to 3 and pull the ripcord and put you feet together when you land" First Jump: 3 delay, from J3 Cub April 1960 at Casterville, Texas. Third Jump: 12 second delay freefall from 3500 ft from J3 Cub without a sleeve deployed chute. (very hard opening, I had harness bruises on my shoulder and chest). Fourth Jump:15 second delay freefall from 4000 feet from J3 Cub. Used a deployment sleeve for the first time (much smaller opening shock). Jump Number 5. An 18-second delay free fall. Tried a baton pass. Jump Number 7: A 20-second delay from about 5000 feet from a Piper Tri-Pacer at Mitchell Field. Mitchell Field was next to Mitchell Lake (a sewage disposal lake for San Antonio). I wanted to take the right side door off the plane but Moe told the pilot no, no, don't bother taking the door off. This made it very difficult for me to look straight down to spot when I was over the target. Also trying to open the door against a 60-mph air stream made leaving the plane difficult and time consuming. Buy the time I left the plane, I was over the middle of Mitchell Lake. From 5000 feet my position did not look too bad. However once I open my chute at about 2000 feet and started looking around, I saw I had a problem. I landed in the middle of Mitchell Lake with my parachute harness, boots and overalls on and of course the canopy had to come down right on top of me. I did not have any flotation gear with me and the lake was about 8 feet deep. I got the canopy off my head but I was all tangled up in the canopy and the lines. With the parachute wrapped around me, and my harness, my boots and my overalls on, swimming was all but impossible. I was staying afloat OK but my arms were getting tired. So I would take a breath sink down and stand on the bottom for a while to rest and try to get my parachute harness off, then come back up. I did this for about 6-7 minutes until two guys got a rowboat and came out to pick me up. As they started to pulled me out of the water, Moe was on the bank yelling: "Get the parachute, get the parachute, be careful with the parachute, don't tear the parachute." He never once asked if I was OK. But that was Moe and that is what I liked about him. When they got me to the bank, they pull me out of the boat and sat me down. I was sitting there, exhausted, spitting out sewer water, when Moe comes over to me. His first endearing words were: "You have ruined my parachute, you have ruined my parachute." Jump Number 8: My first night jump. I spotted for myself for my first 10 jumps. I was on a 1960's accelerated free fall schedule. 2. Exhibition Skydiving: Exhibition skydiving has come a long way from the early 60's when I did most of my jumping. At first, jumping at some hick county fair with a different color smoke bomb on each foot and doing some spirals while in freefall would excite the crowd. If you got fancy, two jumpers could do some crisscrossing if freefall with some smoke. When that got old, you could always get the crowds attention by doing the freefall smoke bit and then opening at about 800 feet with a lot of scrapes of paper and the contents of a couple of large jars of talcum powder packed in with your chute. Openings would look like you chute blew up. I did the - scraps of paper - talcum powder - smoke bomb, thing at a county fair in some nondescript hick town in East Texas back in 1961, and the crowd went wild. About a hundred people kept running under me when I was trying to land. It was like Lindbergh landing in Paris in the 1920s. I landed right in the middle of them and luckily I did not hurt anyone. But then they started trying to tear souvenir pieces off my canopy and run off with my ripcord and sleeve. I barely got out of there in one piece. 3. Cream In's and Low Openings: If you hit the ground at freefall velocity the ground gives about 2 to 4 inches depending on the soil type. If you hit concrete runway the ground does not give at all. Assuming a body is about 8 inch thick at the chest, the center of gravity of your body stops in about 6 to 8 inches on contact with soil and about 4 inches on concrete. If you stop from 130 MPH (~200 fps) in 4 inches the center of your body pull about 1,875 g's if my calculations are right. Ouch! (Note: The term 'Creamed-In' came about because a jumper's body is like thick cream inside his skin after he hits the ground at around 120 mph.) Jack Smith was the second "creamed-in" I witness. Earlier in Texas a student had gone out on his first freefall. He was falling in a perfectly flat stable position but never pulled his ripcord. The student must have had his eyes closed because if you are in freefall going 130 MPH and looking at the ground when you get under 1000 feet, the ground rush is like a freight train coming at you. I have opened under 800 feet a couple of time at demo jumps at county fairs and ground rush alarm-bells were going off. It takes a sleeve-deployed parachute about 400-500 feet to open and the jumper to slow to safe velocity. Because as the chute deploys it is slowing you down, a pull at 800 feet give you about a 3-second margin assuming you don't get any pilot chute flutter. To minimize pilot chute flutter, you pulled your knees up to your chest as you pull the ripcord. This puts your body in a vertical position so the wind stream pull the pilot chute right off of your back with no hesitation. With hand throw-out chute deployment, flutter is not a problem anymore. With hand deployment, when you are preparing to open, you take the pilot chute out of it sock and hold it in you hand in the wind stream while you are falling. You let go of it when you want to open. Hand deployment is not without it risks. If you get the line between the pilot chute and the sleeve holding the main canopy, which is flapping around in the wind, wrapped around your arm or caught on your backpack, you have a problem. 4. Relative Work Jumps: By varying the positions of your arms, legs and body you can change your aerodynamic characteristics and control the vertical and horizontal components and lateral direction of your freefall velocity. Horizontal velocity can be varied from 1) 0mph in a flat and stable position to 2) about 100mph in full reverse arch track position, to 3) about minus 50mph (going backwards) in a reverse delta with your arms extended over your head and legs pulled up to your chest. Vertical velocity can be varied from: 1) around 120 mph in a flat and stable position with arms and legs extended, 2) to about 140mph in the full reverse arch track position, 3) to over 200 mph with your arms by your side and legs together in a head down "at attention" position. For the full reverse arch track position you bend forwards at the waist roll you shoulders down and cup you hands by the side of your body. This position turns you body into a wing segment and produces a lift vector pointing upward and forwards. In this position you can move about a foot horizontally for every 1.4 feet you fall vertically, or a Lift/Drag ratio of about .7. Your horizontal across the ground speed is about 100 mph and your vertical speed is about 140 mph. Two skydiver doing a crisscross with both jumpers in a full reverse arch track position can have relative closing speeds of over 200 mph. Under such condition, collisions between skydivers can prove fatal. Two Army jumpers collided while doing a crisscross demo. One jumper was killed and the other lost both legs. Relative Work Jumps with Some Early D (Expert) License Holder. Dear Dr. Economy: It good to hear from an early D (Expert) license holder. I was able to complete the list for D License numbers 1 through 400 for your use. They are now around 25,000. Please see list attached. Michelle Garvin, Director of Membership Services, United States Parachute Association (USPA) Alexandria, VA My Comments on D-License numbers: By December 1961, I had over 200 free fall jumps (I had no static line jumps) but had never applied for PCA (later called USPA) membership or for an PCA: A, B or C Licenses. (In Central Texas in early 1960's, no one paid much attention to the PCA, their safety rules, or their license) (Note: At the time I got my D License, the requirement for an A (novice) license was 20 jumps, for a D (Expert) license it was 200 freefall jumps including night, water, and 60 seconds delays plus other shorter delays jumps.) I had all the requirements for my D (Expert) License and applied to the PCA for membership and my D-License in the spring of 1961 while still at the Univ. of Texas. The D-License numbers were then in the low 50's. I got my D-License over eight months later in May 1962 with a D-License Number of 115 over 60 numbers higher. I talked to a guy who had been at Orange, Mass, (the old PCA headquarters). He said that everyone wanted a D number under 100 so Istel and the other officers at the PCA set aside a large block of low (under 100) D-Licenses numbers for: 1) their buddies at Orange and other New England Drop Zones, 2) to the Army jumpers e.g., Golden Knights, 3) long term PCA members with A, B, C License, and 4) jumpers from the major PCA approved DZ's i.e. California; and the New England states. Based on my application date, he said my D-License should have been in the 70 to 80 range Oh well, with D licenses numbers now in the 25,000 range, I can still get a free beer when I show up at a jumpers bar and show my D-115 license. Lower license number indicated that you were a pioneer and are considerably more prestigious. I had between 20 to 50+ relative work jumps with the following D (Expert) license holder except were noted. D (Expert) License No. Location (State) Name Comments D 42 TX Jacks, Clyde E Luck was with me when I met Clyde Jacks. I did not developed any good freefall technique until I started going to Houston to Jump. At Houston, I had about 50 jumps with Clyde who had Gold Wings (Over 1000 freefall jumps). License No. 2 or 3. Clyde was undoubtedly one of the best skydivers in the world. Plus he was bright, thoughtful, articulate, well educated, technically competent (the complete Anti-Moe, Anti-Typical Skydiver) and a stunt pilot to boot. He was a great jump instructor and jumping partner. Our personalities meshed and every time I was in Houston we jumped together. I learn more from Clyde in one jump than I had learned in all my previous jumps. After a jump, Clyde could tell you exactly what you did wrong and how to fix the problem. During freefall, he would come up next to you indicate what your problem was, e.g., your left leg was too high. If you did not respond he would push your left leg down to the right position. Clyde had over 1000 freefall jumps and I only had about 80 but he would treat me as an equal because we both had a methodical approach to skydiving. After 20 jumps with Clyde, I was as good a jumper as anyone at Houston, except for Clyde of course. One full moon night in September 1961, Clyde and I jumped from 15,000 ft with a flashlight. We pass the light back and forth several times and then saw that we were starting to drift into some tall cumulus clouds. We both went into a full reverse arch track position giving us a horizontal across the ground speed of about 100mph. We were able to track our way around and stay out of the high thunder head cumulus clouds. There were lightning flashing in the clouds all around us and they would look like big white frosted light bulbs. We open our chutes about 1800 feet when we were under the cloud bottoms and could see the Drop Zone lights. With about 1500 jumps Clyde was killed doing low altitude rolls in his stunt plane near Houston, Texas in 1962. Flying is risky. D 63 CA Simbro, Henry L. 12 Jumps with Hank / Muriel at Lancaster, Taft and Arvin DZ's D 78 CA Muriel, Jean Simbro Wife of Henry Simbro D-63 D 84 CA Cupp, Jack M. 10 Jumps with Cupp at Lancaster, Taft and Arvin DZ's. D 89 TX Fitch, Edward D. Dr. Fitch (C-198), a close friend of Clyde, was a Heart Surgeon in Houston, and another exception to the typical skydiver. I had about 30 jumps with Dr. Fitch at Bee Line and Midway DZ's near Houston, Texas D 95 CA Molitar, Don 10 Jumps with Molitar at Taft and Arvin DZ's. D 115 TX Economy, Richard D 196 CA Carlyn Olsen 20 Jumps with Carlyn Olsen at Lancaster, Taft and Arvin DZ's D 251 TX Jeannie McComba ~ 22 jumps with Jeannie (the jump mistress) McComba D 272 MI Sinclair/Bob Camera man for some of the Rip Cord TV series. (5) jumps with Sinclair at California City and Lake Elsinor DZ's. Bob was a good cameraman but average at relative-work and he did not participate in large relative work jumps. See picture of Bob in photo below. D 344 CA Jack C. Smith Jack was the area safety officer at Lancaster and "creamed-in" circa 1966 while working with a freefall student. The student pulled too low and by the time Jack stop concentrating of his student and pull his ripcord he hit the ground. His body was a mushy lump. Had about 30 jumps with Jack. The area safety officer was not too safe. The term "creamed-in" came about because a body is like thick cream inside your skin after you hit the ground at around 130 miles per hour. Bob Buquor: I had about 50 jumps with Bob Buquor at the Arvin DZ. With most of them, Bob was taking photos with his motorized 35 mm Nikon mounted on his helmet. I knew Bob from San Antonio, Texas before we both ended up in California. Bob had a low C license number C-150 but never got around to applying for his D license because he thought that C-150 would look better than a higher number D license (ahh, vanity). Bob was trying to make it in the movie business. He shot freefall sequences for part of the "Rip Cord" series and for several other movies. At this time, I was a 1st Lt. in the USAF at the Flight Research Center at Edward's AFB Calif. I did most of my California sport jumping at the Lancaster DZ which was close to Edwards AFB. However, Bob and I would get together at Arvin to jump. Bob shot the photo's when we made the "First Six Man Star in the World" September 6, 1964, at Arvin, California." The photo of the Six Man Star was the centerfold of Skydiver Magazine. Another Skydiver Magazine centerfold showed the same group of jumpers leaving the Twin Beach. The making of the First 6 Man Star in the World. Rehearsal jumps. Trivia Note: To minimize arguments over who it was in the photos, jumpers had identifying patches on their jumpsuit, parachute, helmet, etc. Drummiller's were Tiger Strips on his helmet. Mine were a pair of long and short yellow stripe on my back pack, a gold dark-yellow jumpsuit and an old red foot ball helmet with black tape over the vent holes to minimize wind noise. Buquor thought my old red football helmet look like crap, so for star formation photo jumps where appearance was important to Buquor, he would lend me one of his new white Bell Helmets. Notice in the photo below of me leaving the Twin Beach I have on my old red football helmet with black tape over the vent holes. It ironic, that for the photo from this practice jump I had on my old red football helmet and it was the photo that ended up on the centerfold of Skydiver Magazine. Bob was always pissed about this. Because Bob was making a living from his skydiving photography, he took the smallest details very seriously. To me, skydiving was just a way to get a little excitement into my life, waste some time on the weekend and hustle some of the gals that hung around the DropZone. We jumped for 15,000 feet. Photo below was taken about 12,000 feet. Small door on Twin Beach, see photo below, made egress time consuming. This spread out the jumpers making the star formation more time consuming. In the photo below, I had grabbed Poteet's left hand with my right hand and was trying to decide whether or not to switch to my left hand with the jumpers coming in from my right side. Ed Drummiller, in the tiger striped helmet, did not participate in the last series of jumps when we made the 6-man star. SEE PIC 1 Below: one of the final jumps. I am the jumper on the left in the 3 man hook up. The jumper above me with his hands in a position ready to pounce came in between Poteet and myself. The smoke bomb burned out by the time we all got together. The smoke was for the benefit of the observers on the ground so that they could track the jump better. Jumper on the far left is Don Henderson. The jumper on the upper right is tracking towards us in a frog position. Notice how he is twisting his hands to make fine speed adjustments as he tracks in towards the formation. SEE PIC 2 Bob shot the freefall photo's when we made the "First Six Man Star in the World" September 6, 1964, at Arvin, California." The photo of the Six Man Star was a centerfold of Skydiver Magazine. Bob Buguor was the cameraman for another Skydiver Magazine centerfold that showed the same group of jumpers leaving a Twin Beach in an earlier jump preparing for the Six-Man Star photo shoot. SEE PIC 3 In September, Bob Buquor had just returned from Germany after filming the world skydiving meet for ABC. Back at Arvin, he filmed the first 6-man star September 6, in the world. That record made the cover of Lyle Cameron's Skydiver Magazine. Because the skydivers are in such close proximity to each other, the position and motion of one jumper can disturb the airflow around the others, causing the others to have to compensate to maintain a stable star position. Because your hands are tied up holding on to other jumpers, all control has to be done with your legs. Notice the jumper on the right, in the above photo, has pulled his legs up to his ass because he is slightly high. I am the lower jumper in the yellow (light colored) jumpsuit with his ass to the camera, I have extended my legs because I am a little low. I have a photo taken moments before showing jumper on the left of me entering the formation. Because he was the last jumper in the formation and he came in a little fast, he overshot and is lower than the others. He had pulled the left side of the yellow suited jumper (me) down. Notice that I have my left leg extended more than my right leg to compensate for my left side being pull down by the red suited jumper on my left. For "First Six Man Star in the World" photo, we had jumped from 12,500 feet out of a Twin Beach. It takes about 1200 feet of freefall to accelerate to terminal freefall velocity of around 130 mph. Depending on how fast the plane is going when you exit it, you don't have a lot of aerodynamic control until you get near terminal velocity. Once you are falling over about 100mph, you can turn, track across the ground, do flips, do formation flying, and etc. The Twin Beach has a small door allowing only one jumper to leave at a time. By the time the 7th jumper (the six in the photo and the cameraman) is out the door, the first jumper out is about 600 feet below and already getting up to freefall speed. The last jumper after diving out the door and stabilizing has to go into a head down full track position for about 12-15 seconds to catch up with the first jumper and the others who have formed up with him. The problem is by the time the last jumper out start to catch up with the jumper forming underneath him, the last jumper is going about 60-mph faster than the group and has to flare into full spread eagle position to put on the air brakes. If you flare to late, you end up underneath the other jumpers and you are out of the picture. Worst yet if you flare to late, you may run into the lower jumpers, who are forming the star, going 35-40 mph and do a lot of damage. If you flare to early, you are above the other jumpers and then have to tuck back in to drop down to them wasting valuable time. The freefall activity from leaving the plane to opening your chute only lasts about 65 seconds. Below - Exiting the twin beach on one of the practice jumps. I am the jumper in the yellow jumpsuit with the yellow strips on my backpack with my old red football helmet with black tape over the vent holes on. From Skydiver Magazine. SEE PIC 4 I have pulled my left leg up to keep from being turned sideways by the prop blast of the left engine. The jumper behind me, Don Henderson, with his arms back has just push off from the door. The Bob Buquor Memorial Star Crest: http://www.afn.org/skydive/rw/bbmsc/index-old.html Bob Buquor pictured here at Arvin in 1966. Bob drowned later that year on July 27th off the Malibu coast while filming a skydiving segment for a movie (Photograph by Tim Harris). The Bob Buquor Memorial Star Crest (BBMSC) is a perpetual memorial to commemorate the efforts of the late Robert H. Buquor who played a major role in the origin of star formation relative work. Bob Buquor initiated and photographed the majority of the star attempts at Arvin, California in the early 1960's and was successful in capturing the first 6-way star there on film on September 6, 1964. Bob drowned off Malibu Beach, California in 1966, while filming a dangerous movie sequence for a major studio. It is to his driving enthusiasm in this aspect of the sport that this membership is dedicated. My Note: Bob was a good swimmer and would not have drowned if he would have dumped his helmet, with a large 35mm movie camera mounted on it, and the large heavy battery pack attached to his waist. But good jumpers never dropped ripcords handles or dump a large expensive camera, not when it belong to the movie studio, in the ocean. It ironic, the camera and battery pack were recovered in good shape along with Bob's dead body. http://www.scr-awards.com The Beginning: The was no Accelerated Freefall program, no AAD's, no Dytters, no altimeters and no packers. Your main canopy was a 28-foot round. Your reserve was a 24-foot flat circular canopy. All of which were purchased as "military surplus." And then, you had to convince some pilot that it was a good idea to take you up to five thousand feet, open the door, fling yourself out and learn. http://www.scr-awards.com/history/index.html Some Comments from Scratch http://www.afn.org/skydive/usenet/1995/mar/0176.html Bob Allen was our camera person in the early star days at Taft. The two cameras on the load were Bob Buquor and Richard Economy. Bob Buquor was a very good skydiver who brought stars into focus by taking pictures of them. Before that stars had no more meaning than any other freefall activity. I still remember seeing the picture of the first 6 star on the cover of Skydiver Magazine. I couldn't think of anything else for weeks. Richard Economy had an even greater influence on me. One day at Lancaster he showed me the idea of flying close but not touching. We called it hovering. It has pretty much been my favorite freefall activity ever since. Mainstream skydiving pretty much went the way of grips and hookups when stars became popular a few years later, but my favorite has always been flying around without touching. You get to fly the whole time. You never have to hang on. End of Scratch's Comments: Lancaster Jump Meet: 1964. This was only a Landing Accuracy Meet In the photo below, Bob Sinclair of the Hollywood Paraventures Group is standing next to me. Sinclair was the photographer for the first part of the Ripcord TV Series before Bob Buquor and Lee Hunt took over. SEE PIC 5 SEE PIC 6 After 1965, I did more flying than jumping and got my commercial, instrument, multi-engine and flight instructor pilot ratings. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

By Dr. Eco Bob Buquor, first 6 man star, early D-License Holders with comments, Up date from the Pacific Northwest. I had about 50 jumps with Bob Buquor at the Arvin DZ. With most of them, Bob was taking photo's with his motorized 35 mm Nikon mounted on his helmet. I knew Bob from San Antonio, Texas before we both ended up in California. Bob had a low C license number C-150 but never got around to applying for his D license because he thought that C-150 would look better than a higher number D license (ahhh, vanity). Bob was trying to make it in the movie business. He shot freefall sequences for part of the "Rip Cord" series and for several movies. At that time, I was a 1st Lieutenant in the USAF at the Flight Research Center at Edward's AFB Calif. I had applied for my D license earlier while still at the University of Texas working on my PhD. I did most of my California sport jumping at the Lancaster DZ which was close to Edwards AFB. However, Bob and I would get together at Arvin to jump. Bob shot the photo's when we made the "First Six Man Star in the World" September 6, 1964, at Arvin, California." The photo of the Six Man Star was the centerfold of Skydiver Magazine. Another Skydiver Magazine centerfold showed the same group of jumpers leaving the Twin Beach. After 1965, I did more flying than jumping and got my commercial, instrument, multi-engine and flight instructor pilot ratings. Richard Economy D-115 See List of Early D license holders below. The Bob Buquor Memorial Star Crest The Bob Buquor Memorial Star Crest (BBMSC) is a perpetual memorial to commemorate the efforts of the late Robert H. Buquor who played a major role in the origin of star formation relative work. Bob Buquor initiated and photographed the majority of the star attempts at Arvin, California in the early 1960's and was successful in capturing the first 8-way star there on film on October 17, 1965. Bob drowned off Malibu Beach, California in 1966, while filming a dangerous movie sequence for a major studio. It is to his driving enthusiasm in this aspect of the sport that this membership is dedicated. Note: Bob was a good swimmer and would not have drowned if he would have dumped his helmet with a large 35mm movie camera mounted on it and the large heavy battery pack attached to his waist. But good jumpers never dropped ripcords handles or dump large expensive cameras in the ocean. The camera and battery pack were recovered along with Bob's body. http://www.scr-awards.com/ Star Crest Awards See below for all Star Crest Awards http://www.scr-awards.com/bbmsc_the_beginning.html The was no Accelerated Freefall program, no AAD's, no Dytters, no altimeters and no packers. Your main canopy was a 28-foot round. Your reserve was a 24-foot flat circular canopy. All of which were purchased as "military surplus." And then, you had to convince some pilot that it was a good idea to take you up to five thousand feet, open the door, fling yourself out and learn... See below for all Star Crest Awards First 6 Man Star Photo by B Buquor September 6, 1964. Arvin, California John DePorter Mitch Proteet -Black on left Richard Economy -Yellow Lou Paproski Don Henderson -Purple Al Paradowski List of Early D License Holders Note: I do not have all of the comments from other jumpers entered into the list. You could update the list with the additional comments from other jumpers. DrEco Dear Dr. Economy: It good to hear for an early D license holder. We are working on the electronic version of the "A", "B", "C" and "D" License holders. I was able to complete the list for D License numbers 1 through 400 for your use. Please see list attached. If you should have any further questions, please feel free to contact us. Blue Safe Skies, April 20, 2003 Michelle Garvin Director of Membership Services USPA Alexandria, VA Note on D-License numbers: By December 1961, I had over 200 free fall jumps (I had no static line jumps) but had never applied for PCA (later called USPA) membership or for an PCA: A, B or C Licenses (Note: In Central Texas in early 1960's, no one paid much attention to the PCA, their safety rules, or their license) I had all the requirements for my D-License and applied to the PCA for membership and my D-License in late 1961 when the D-License numbers were in the 50's. I got my D-License over six months later in May 1962 with a D-License Number of 115 over 60 numbers higher. I talked to a guy who had been at Orange, Mass. (the old PCA headquarters) and he told me that Istel and the other officers at the PCA had given priority for low D-Licenses to 1) their long term PCA members with A, B, C License, 2) jumpers from the major PCA approved DZ's i.e. California; 3) their buddies at Orange and other New England DZ's; and 4) to the Army jumpers e.g., Golden Knights. Based on my application date, he said my D-License should have been in the 70 to 80 range (oh well!!) Note:I had between 20 to 50+ relative work jumps with the following Bold Underlined D license holder. List of Early D License Holders: No. - Location - Name 1 MA Lewis B Sanborn 2 MA Jacques A Istel 3 MA Dana Paul Smith 4 MA Darius Vakharia 5 PA Steve Snyder 6 MO George P Taylor 7 AK Heisel Christian 8 VA Verlin Glenn 9 CA Lt. James P Pearson 10 NY Robert M McDonnell 11 GA Danny Byard 12 NC Loy Brydon 13 NY Jim Arender 14 Ernest Lynn Pyland 15 NC Merrill L Shepard 16 MA Edward F Strong 17 Ray Love 18 KY Michael Kremar 19 Jack Helms 20 NC Herry E Arter 21 MA Mark Schmidt 22 NC Gerald F Bourquin 23 PA William C Edge 24 PA Robert Spatola 25 NC Harold R Lewis 26 MA William G Jolly 27 Lee Ray K Smith 28 GA Elfers, William 29 KY Kirtley, Thomas 30 NY MacPherson, Allan 31 MA Straus, Bradford 32 Unziker, William J. 33 CA Hulick, Gerald W. 34 PA Bahor, Erick M. 35 KY Meyers, Lee A 36 OH Reed/Sherman Wilson 37 TX Duncan/Edmond C 38 NC Fortenberry, Richard T 39 NC Jorgensen, Keith C 40 NC Dunphry, Richard 41 NC Martin, Roy D 42 TX Jacks, Clyde E. I had about 50 Jumps with Clyde who had Gold Wings 1 or 2. With about 1500 jumps he was killed doing low altitude rolls in his stunt plane near Houston, Texas in Nov., 1962. 43 CA Pol, James E. 44 OH Harding, Daniel E 45 CA Skinner, Robert W. 46 IN MacPherson, Dennis H 47 FL Poppenhager, Paul J. 48 VA Hale, Roger, C. 49 MA Moge, Maurice R. 50 NJ Guilfoyle, Lee 51 CA Stevens, Perry D. 52 CA Murry, robert A. 53 CA Duncan, Edmond C. 54 CA Williams, Verne 55 CA Kilsow, Arthur 56 FL Brezin, Ben 57 MN Mathwig/Jerry E 58 MO Williams, Douglas E 59 CA Kochenberg, Dale R. 60 IL Stoyas, James C. Creamed In 1982 61 APO NY Chace, John P. 62 NC Ward, Richard F. 63 CA Simbro, Henry L. Jumped with Hank and Muriel at Lancaster, Taft and Arvin DZ's 64 CA Percival/John Moring 65 WI Goetsch/Phillip L 66 APO NY Charland, Normand E. 67 GA Edwards, Roy L.D. 68 OH Beyan, Dennis P. 69 VT Pond/Nathan 70 KY McDonald/Coy O 71 NC Letbetter, Bobby W. 72 SD Smith/Richard Nelson 73 NC Hollis/John T 74 AZ Hirschberg/Kenneth Allen 75 NC Perry, James M 76 CA Buckner, Robert H, Jr. 77 NC Norman, Joe 78 CA Muriel, Jean Simbro Wife of Henry Simbro D-63 79 NJ O'Reilly, James J. 80 NC Yost, Charles E. 81 FL Benoit, Chritten P. 82 NC Cole, Ray S., Jr. 83 CO McCarthy/William E 84 CA Cupp, Jack M. Jumps with Cupp at Lancaster, Taft and Arvin DZ's. 85 OH McLean, Howard 86 CA McClellan, Haynes, F. 87 NC Mills, Wesley G., Jr. 88 FL Horvath, Martin J. 89 TX Fitch, Edward D. Dr. Fitch (C-198), a friend of Clyde Jacks, was a Heart Surgeon in Houston. Had about 30 jumps with Fitch at Bee Line and Midway DZ's near Houston,Texas 90 NC Charette/Wja 91 OH Gates/Dale V/ Jr 92 NC Webber, Claude A 93 OR Scott, John A 94 MO Garrison, James W. 95 CA Molitar, Don Jumps with Molitar at Taft and Arvin DZ's. 96 SC Coleman/Maurice C 97 OH Draper, John D. 97-A NC Palmer, Ralph K. 98 PA Pasquale, John F. 99 NC Williford, Sherman H. 100 FL Shuford, Richard H. 101 PA Yurchison, John 102 NY Markhoff, William C. 103 WA Ady, Jack 104 NY Feeney/Gene F 105 NC McCusker, James 106 MI Allen, Fred L. 107 MI Raddick, Robert A. 108 OH Baron, Mark 109 CA Sellers, John M. 110 CA Haring, Robert 111 CA Carpenter, Frank Jumps with Carpenter at Taft and Arvin DZ's 112 FL Wright, Harold L. 113 CA McDonald, James P. 114 TX Anagnostis/Constantine B 115 TX Economy, Richard First Jump: a jump/pull from J3 Cub April 1960 at Casterville, Texas. Third Jump:12 second delay freefall from 3500 ft from J3 Cub with no sleeve (hard opening). Fourth jump:15 second delay freefall from 4000 ft from J3 Cub. Used a sleeve for the first time (big difference). Jump 7: Landed in Mitchell lake. Jump 8: a night jump. Spotted for myself the first 10 jumps. 116 CA Sewell, Ronald D. Jumps with Ron Sewell at Lancaster 117 JAPAN Adair, Willie (Duke) 118 FL Mathews/Robert Anthony/Jr 119 APO NY Lanier, Robert H. 120 WA Peterson, Cal 121 FL Kruse, Edward P. 122 FL Picard, Harold W. 123 NM Mulcalry, George R. 124 CA Martin, Coy D. 125 AZ Jenkins/Steve 126 FL Godwin/Jimmy F 127 FL Gaffney, John D. 128 VA Waugh, Leonard A 129 CO Smith/N Ray 130 CA Flick, Leslie L. 131 Johnson, Howard R. 132 CA McRae, Monte J. 133 TX Lewis, James E. 134 WA Johnston, Howard r. 135 FL Wenk, Peter, J. 136 CA Gividen, George M. 137 CA David, Harold L. 138 WA Gainor/Denny Bear 139 KY Howard, Michael 140 KY Allsopp, Leonard E. 141 SC Selby, Edward B. Jr. 142 TX Fowler/James Floyd/Jr 143 CA Freeze, Ronald S. 144 NC Baker, Alton, W. 145 FL Dupuis, Lawrence 146 CA Lizzio, James R. 147 MA Soutter, Nicholas B. 148 NC Duffy, Ray 149 APO NY Stroughbaugh, Donald 150 NC VanderWeg, Phillip J. 151 KS Passailaigne, Edward P. Jr. 152 TX Wallace, Carlos, G. 153 VA Jones, Sonny 154 HI Gough, Harold W. Jr. 155 NC Saunders, Joseph G. 156 NY Wild, Frederick W 157 AK Sisler, G. Ken 158 IL Morrow, Don 159 FL Addison, Wilbert E. 160 MA Doolittle, Lewis E. 161 NV Evans, Hal 162 CO Driver, William K. 163 KY Kidwell, Jerry G 164 HI Galbraith, Lachlan, N. 165 CA Rinder, James, E. 166 NC Pronier/Robert Anthony 167 NC Thacker/Gene P 168 NC Larry Schell 169 NJ Charles Seymour 170 FL Thomas Rudder 171 CA Padayhag/Stan 172 MS Jerry Price 173 CA Joe Tiago Jr 174 TX Max Schetter 175 KY Lyon/Michael E 176 MI McTaggart/Robert E 177 OH Nininger/Paul W 178 NB Clarence C. Peters 179 IN Jonn Findley 180 AL Buddy L. McCoy 181 CA Doyle Fields 182 FA Ronald G. Diebold 183 NJ Hugh M. Hilden 184 185 PA Fritz A. Muller 186 FL Bob Collinsgru 187 PA Carl E. Blessing 188 PA Owen M. Curran 189 CA Walter C. Scherar 190 NY Philip F. Flynn 191 WA Jim Jacobs 192 FL Norman Roy Johnson 193 TX John Miller 194 MA David B. Jansen 195 NV Robert Archuleta 196 CA Carlyn Olsen ~20 Jumps with Carlyn Olsen at Lancaster, Taft and Arvin DZ's. 197 CA Albert R. Barry 198 WA Ledbetter/William R 199 TX Malcom Thompson 200 NJ Thomas Murray 201 CA Forrest D Castle 202 CA Tyson/Jerome P 203 NB Jay O. Emery 204 CA Denny M. Manning 205 CA Roy A. Fryman 206 TN Dennis T Rhodes 207 NJ William W Bohringer 208 NC Charles L Mullins 209 TX Bobby Dean Crump 210 WI Falconer/Robert Davis 211 OH Raymond M. Starnes 212 NB Stanley Searles 213 CT Ed Vickery 214 NC Paul S Newman 215 NC James C. Lane 216 NJ Theodore O. Taylor 217 FL Gutshall/George A 218 OH Joseph J. Giel 219 FL Charles McSwain 220 FL Potts/Len 221 MI Kim Emmons 222 NB Lowell A Ham 223 NB John Timothy MacFerrin 224 MD Jimmy Grant Roberts 225 TN Bud Sellick 226 CA Enarson/Richard L 227 FL Anthony C Riek 228 FL De La Mar/Donald R 229 NC Zacher/George A 230 NY James E Garvey 231 CA Binford/Frank L 232 DC Richard L Myron 233 WA George F. Mitchell 234 CA Lance S. Haserot 235 NV Ridenour Jr/Whitley A 236 PA Joseph A. Nichols 237 KY Henry Nehrbass 238 NY Thomas E. Waldie 239 WA Buford W. Knight 240 CA Richard Pedley 241 MA Edward A Dorey 242 FL Gary J. Dupuis 243 ME Donahue/Robert L 244 NC Robert L. Donahoe 245 MA Ellsworth H. Getchell 246 NY Robert J. Cathey 247 TX George H. Sage 248 CA Young/Ronald Leo 249 IA John H. Talbott 250 CA McNamara/Brian Michael 251 TX Jeannie McComba ~ 20 jumps with Jeannie (the jump mistress) McComba. Jeannie went in at Ellsinore. 252 CA Leigh R. Hunt 253 CA Dennis P. Moneymaker 254 MD Robert W. Hollar 255 NC Dennis N. McCarthy 256 TX William E. Ritchie 257 VA Sutherland/Thomas Ray 258 CA Joseph Mangine 259 NC Clark/David L 260 CA Ludlow O. Clements 261 NV Floyd A. Martin 262 UT Currie A. Harlacker 263 FL Kauffman/Warren 264 FL Christian K. Ebersole 265 FL Coppe/John Eugene 266 CA Lewis T. Vinson 267 WA Drumheller/Ed/II ~ 30 jumps with Ed at Lancaster DZ's. 268 TX Robert H. Sholly 269 WA Peter A. Goodwin 270 NC Patrick G. Murphy 271 AZ Al J. Hoffman 272 MI Sinclair/Bob Camera man for some of the Rip Cord series. (5) jumps with Sinclair at Califorina City and Lake Elsinor DZ's. Bob was a good camera-man but average at relative-work and did not participate in large relative work jumps. 273 NE Janousek/Marion L 274 MN Burg/Gerald L 275 FL Newton Neidig 276 NB John D. Wade 277 AL Sugg/Samuel E 278 CA James B. Cameron 279 NC Kevin F. Brady 280 AZ Jack Ely 281 MN Richard N. Christenson 282 GA Sims/Dave C 283 GA Edward A. Rector 284 NC Hal T. Baxter 285 IL Stephan J. Wilke 286 WI Herman W. Rockenbach 287 SC Mark T. Graham 288 IL Beverly/Elbert W 289 NC Louis Bell 290 NC Richard Derry 291 CA David Barlow, Jr. 292 FL Howard Curtis 293 NY Frank Richard 294 NC James Bailey 295 NC Jeffrey Dixon 296 PA Charles Murphy 297 NY Patrick Lawton 298 NY William Ottley 299 IL William Martin 300 CA Cornelius O'Rourke, Jr. Creamed in 1965 wearing a Santa Suit from bobfederman@centurytel.net 301 CA Bill Williams 302 NC Jerry Babb 303 MI Karl Brushaber 304 WA Jens Jorgensen 305 MD Robert Buscher, Jr. 306 OK Gerald Roth 307 IA James De Lap 308 CA David Becker 309 NC Robert McDermott 310 AL Dannie Smith 311 CA Lane Smith 312 CA Ronald Wright 313 CA Michael Clancy 314 NY David Lanzendorf 315 KY Robert Eves 316 VA Ronald Anderson 317 CA Burl Baxter 318 KY Larry Caid 319 NY Alva English 320 NC Paul Mac Lean 321 NC William Duncan, Jr. 322 NC William Lockward, Jr. 323 NC Billy Nolan 324 CA John Harrison 325 CA Anne Batterson 326 AK James E. Pullis 327 CA Larry L. Perkins 328 NC Warren E. Farrell 329 IL Oldrich Olichovik Killed Plane crash, Hinckley 1992 330 LA R.L. Ticer 331 MA William T. Hamilton 332 CA Ralph E. Weekly 333 OH Joseph W. Cooper 334 NY Judy Simpson 335 CA Arthur W. Jarrell 336 CA Arthur E. Armstrong 337 CA Donald P. Woerner 338 CA George I. Nicks 339 NY James W. Shaw 340 NC Robert B. Ferguson 341 NC Tod Smith 342 RI Richard D. Yessian 343 OH Andrew N. Starkey 344 CA Jack C. Smith. Jack was the area safety officer at Lancaster and creamed in circa 1966 while working with a freefall student. Had about 30 jumps with Jack. The safety officer was not too safe. 345 CT Roy Bertalovitz 346 NJ Richard C. Lee 347 CA David F. Perry 348 GA David L. Pride 349 CA Bob Allen 350 KA Lloyd Y. Jan 351 TN Jack Norman Jr. 352 PA Harry M. Burlin 353 CA Donald E. Myers 354 IL Walter Huninsky 355 MA David L. Eisner 356 MI Robert E. Tighe 357 MO Jon L. Bergman 358 IL Robert C. Kellen 359 MI Paul E. Yarnell 360 CA Frank M. Collison 361 AK Johnny M. Davis 362 TX Arthur A. Nelbach Jr. 363 UT Jamy M. Minnock Jr. 364 OR James L. Wright 365 OR Evan N. Hale 366 IL Leon Somers 367 TX Dennis A. Clark 368 OR Morton O. Gossett 369 KY Sherman K. Hawkins 370 NY Robert J. Busch 371 WA Charles S. Wallin 372 IL Wernet K. Roth 373 KY Clarence E. Nugent 374 OH Richard L. Bates 375 FL Charles F. Clifford 376 WA Donald M. Stone 377 ND Peter Gange 378 WA Gerald E. Helms 379 NJ David Wignef 380 NY Rudolph P. Ahlgren 381 NC Richard Stanton 382 NC Harold W. Ferguson 383 CA Daryl R. Galloway 384 PA Ed Marler 385 PA John Higgins 386 CA Charles O. Choate 387 MA Arthur P. Spilios 388 IL Michael Ditzig 389 IL Richard N. Roberts 390 MI Billie M. Dolley 391 WA Rudy Peterson 392 NY L. Stanley Zielinski 393 FL John B. Chamberlin 394 OR Ralph A. Hatley 395 OR Joseph M. Brockway 396 WA Richard W. Carlisle 397 NJ David P. Lithgow 398 AL Thomas W. Pritchard, Jr. 399 WA Frank W. Vogt 400 WA William M. Berg All Star Crest Awards http://www.scr-awards.com/bbmsc_the_beginning.html The was no Accelerated Freefall program, no AAD's, no Dytters, no altimeters and no packers. Your main canopy was a 28-foot round. Your reserve was a 24-foot flat circular canopy. All of which were purchased as "military surplus." And then, you had to convince some pilot that it was a good idea to take you up to five thousand feet, open the door, fling yourself out and learn... Updates on D license holder from other Skydivers Gerald Bourquin - D-22 - lives in CA still active jumping. Steve Snyder - D-5 - died in plane crash Denny Gainor - D-138 - Still active at Perris Richard Pedley - D-240 - died on a base jump in L.A. Jeannie McCombs - D-251- went in at Ellsinore Ed Vickery - D-213 - Retired from Irvin Aerospace, living in Big Bear, CA Ronald Wright - D-312 - went in CA on demo. Larry Perkins - D-327 - working in aviation, Ellsinore CA Art Armstrong - D-336 - died in Ca Up date from the Pacific Northwest to DrEco: Jerry Baumchen D-1543 (a newbie compared to this list) John Scott - D-93 - John died about 10 yrs ago from a sudden, massive heart attack. Jack Ady - D-103 - I was in the Snohomish area yesterday and decided to go to the airport for lunch and ran into Jack. He is retired, living right off of the airport and got married for the first time about 3 yrs ago; a real optimist. Rich Johnston D-134 - Rich had a stroke just after the first of the year and is now slightly disabled. Hi lives near me and we used to get together every month or so for breakfast or lunch; I hate to visit now in his condition, but I do need to. Jens Jorgeson - D-304 - I haven't seen Jens in over 20 yrs but a mutual friend saw him last summer and said that he is in good health. Jim Wright - D-364 - Jim was killed on a jump about 15-18 yrs ago. Evan Hale - D-365 - I last saw Evan at the memorial for Jim Wright; nothing since. Ralph Hatley - D-394 - Ralph still runs a drop zone and is one of the biggest gear distributors in the world. Joe Brockway - D-395 - Joe retired from the gov't about 15 yrs ago; I last talked to him about 10 yrs ago. I need to call him, also. Dick Carlisle - D-396 - I understand he was killed in a plane crash many, many years ago. Bill Berg - D-400 - Bill was killed flying a forest fire fighting aircraft when she came apart in mid-air. Update from Bob Federman To DrEco: Just in case anyone who knew them might be interested. It was fun going through all of the names; I started jumping in early '64 and a few months later joined PCA & subscribed to Skydiver Magazine. A lot of those names were in those mags many times. And I do remember your photos. Jerry Baumchen D-1543 (a newbie compared to this list) D-60 CREAMED IN 1982, D-300 CREAMED IN1965,WEARING A SANTA SUIT, MY FIRST JUMP INSTR.,D-329 PLANE CRASH,HINCKLEY 1992 bob federman FEDO C-2403,SCR-155 Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/copying-music-from-ipod-to-computer/ Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

We had a young 22ish show up at the DZ and finish in six levels. They handed him off to me for "Coach" dives (before they were formalized). FIrst one was a mirror dive. Flawless. Second one was an advacned mirror dive... thought I could trick him by combining three manuevers as one - told him to watch all three - then do it. We got down from his 8th dive and he again asked how he did - You don't need to be here. You need to be at Skydive Dallas getting on a four-way team now. He did, he was, he competed his first year and came in fourth with about 125 dives under his belt. Freak. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Laura, SkymonkeyOne (Chuck) is at Zhills now. Suggest you get with him for a one-on-one round table discussion. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

It's not about Democrats or Republicans. It's about Power. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Yeah, but how many species do you know? Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

Your Vet can tell you exactly what it is. Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.