matthewcline

WHAT IS A PA? I need to see documentation other than what is on a SITE - for the date the 555 went to WA. I had always been told it was in Late 1944 or that could be when they got the orders to go and then went to WA in January of 1945. Snow was still on the ground - they were in training mode in the mountains! Look at the pictures. Look at the attire they are wearing. Was this a training session or a tape of an actual fire fight? What you happened to be told was wrong. They got orders to go from the 555th "Triple Nickle" all black Parachute Company, to the 555th "Triple Nickle" all black Parachute Battalion, this was on November of 1944, this is not only on their site (which you ignore) but in their numerous books and Army Documents. In May 1945 when the whole of the reinforced Company (see not the whole battalion went) arrived it was late spring. Blevins, Amazon and the other NWer's will tell ya it is not uncommon for snow to still fall and or be on the ground. Go into the mountains and the possibility increases. Happened to me as a young troop in Washington and as a Kid in NorCal. But if your equating the "sheepskins" to meaning winter you would be misunderstanding. They wore the sheepskins since there was no other item in the Army Airborne inventory they could wear for the protection they needed when landing in rough terrain, Dreery even commended this! So they wore the Bomber Crews High Altitude Apparel, "Sheepskins". But enough with the history lessons. How does this apply to Duane? Lay it out, month by month year by year, from his birth to his death. One line entries. If it connects, it connects, so far there is not a "Ah hah" connection. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Ever wonder why I ask for a particular page in its entirety? Because I have it! The sites, are the books in digital format, the sites are correct, just as correct as the book they happened to be written from! It is memory and understanding that is incorrect. IMO, if you just wanted to know about Duane's sordid past and not wanting to be married to the "one that got away", then you would not be here focused on that. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

It's important to compare SS to the historical returns of very low risk investments, not the market as a whole. it's important to compare your expected rate of return for the life time of the individual paying in. If 2 people pay in starting at 18 through say, 68, the person who branched into the market will be far better off than the one that just relied on SS -- even more so now that SS is bunk. SS isn't, nor was it ever, designed to be a retirement plan. But, sadly it is what some use it for. Even Politicians discuss it as such, hence the fact it is so big an election issue. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Yep, common at military and none military facilities still today. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

I would go with option two, "old school" I still can't get past the "X" chute problem. have you seen a chute with a "X" on it? can't seem to find one, the only thing I found was this photo? Yep, a big red "X" to mark a demo container, not to be used for jumping. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

I agree that they may have passed each other on calls. The Triple Nickles already there fighting a fire when the USFS lead effort arrived. Records with the USFS shows the cons didn't do training with the Nickles, they got trained as a ground unit, like the hot shots, and bused in. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

And yet she persists and no one else pointed out the issues. I recently spoke to a gentleman who "profiled" cooper. In the near future I will transcribe the conversation and post it, his name with held. The gist is; his profile makes "Cooper" either a Special Operations connected individual, or an old school skydiver with woodsman/survival experience. He also believes he lived through the jump, evaded, and settled some where with the remaining cash and lived frugally, but comfortably. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

She was just trying to justify her theory that Duane gained the skills necessary to commit the hijacking by observing the 555th. The problem is she can't prove her position that Duane worked with them. Each tidbit she posts is not inline with the 555th's historical facts, where they happened to be posted when they deployed is not where she says Duane was at the time. Go further back and the connection at the camps doesn't work out in the SE. He might have been a fire fighting con, working like the "hot shots" do, but as of this time no such proof exists. And even if Duane was such a savant, who could learn by observation only, his life story counters that pretty well. And if he was such a savant, he would still need to learn (from observation), a few more skills just to exit the plane. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Like I said - it doesn't make much difference with the things I know. It is trivial. Please go back and read the long post I just made about Richard Tosaw and my visit to California with Duane's brother and sister.

I learned not to trust you. You want to be married to a hijacker so bad you won't accept facts. You don't understand the Military History, the Parachuting History and my written words. Retype out page 124, not your summary (even though your summary served well), but all of it. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

LOL stop it Please stop it Irony score 10/10 It's truly amazing that lack of basic numeracy is a characteristic of so many right wing supporters, both in general and on SC. You've got the numeracy problem, 10/10 = 1 Your Elitist Score: 10 (out of a possible 10) You're lucky you have smart people here to put you right. 10/10 = 100% or 1, 10 parts, of a 10 part item, equals 1, aka 100% of a single item. This is informative! Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

So Duane was in prison in January of 1945? But hten got transferred to CA? The 555th arrived from NC to the NW in May of 1945. I see a small time line issue. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

More importantly will the whole USPA voting establishment believe that he is better than all the other minds. This solution better than all other possible solutions. That should be your question. My Idea's are based on a personal history of observation going back way before this issue and proposals. No he is not better. The online polls show he is in line with the majority of the membership. And Sparky asked if he was right, not better, "better" is an opinions based answer, we no how that goes. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

As one should! Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Jo, they are the entire 555th PIB, three 5's, they got called the Triple Nickles when stood up as a Company in 1943. They started as a Company, then grew to a Battalion, they are their entire unit the 555th PIB "The Triple Nickles". They earned the additional nickname in 1945, since that was what they happened to be doing. You can disagree all you want, but your "impression" is not inline with history and fact. I will take their word, over yours or mine, in regards to their history. I need not have a scan, the summary vindicated me nicely, thank you. Now since that is all settled, lets move on and back to "Cooper", sound good? None of the Parachuting we have discussed at this point is Feefall. The only real skill from the Static Line method we can transfer, in this particular case, is the Rough Terrain training. Maybe some spotting, but modified, maybe some equipment handling, but modified as well, definitely the landings though. So now the "Cooper" suspect will need to add to this skill of landing in trees, he needs freefall training. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

EXACTLY!!! THANK YOU, JO! But the whole text, as opposed to a summary, would take out any bias. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

The 555th PIB disagrees with you BTW. "The battalion did not serve overseas during World War II. One of the reasons for this decision dealt with the issue of segregation. European theater commanders "simply had no use" for the Black jumpers. The Asian theater was a different matter. Members of the 555 hoped to get into the war against the Japanese. According to Sgt Walter Morris "It was a secret mission called Operation Firefly. We thought we were going overseas to [Gen. Douglas] MacArthur's theater". It wasn't until they arrived in Oregon, in May 1945 that they learned they'd be fighting the Japanese on the fire line in the Western United States.[1] During the winter of 1944–45, the Japanese sent 9000 fire balloons toward the western coast of North America. It was believed 1000 succeeded in reaching the United States, and 300 were witnessed. After three days, each balloon dropped an incendiary bomb.[2] In order to conceal the efficacy of these attacks, the missions of the 555th was kept clandestine in nature. In addition to fires started by the enemy incendiary devices, the 555th fought numerous other forest fires. Stationed at Pendleton Field (site of initial training for the Doolittle's raid on Japan) Oregon, with a detachment in Chico, California, unit members courageously participated in dangerous fire-fighting missions throughout the Pacific Northwest during the summer and fall of 1945. The group engaged in over 1200 missions, earning the nickname "Smoke Jumpers" in addition to "Triple Nickles." The only fatality in the unit died while jumping on 6 August 1945. The 555th Parachute Infantry Battalion was nicknamed the "Triple Nickles" because of its numerical designation and the selection of 17 of the original 20-member "colored test platoon" from the 92nd Infantry (Buffalo) Division. Hence, the origin of the term Buffalo Nickles; the spelling derives from old English. Three buffalo nickels joined in a triangle or pyramid is the identifying symbol.[3] Soon after returning to Camp Mackall in October 1945, the 555th Parachute Infantry Battalion was transferred to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, its home for the next two years. During this period the unit was attached to the elite 82d Airborne Division. When the battalion was inactivated on 15 December 1947, most of its personnel were reassigned to the division's organic 3d Battalion, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment" An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

I will go with the USFS Smoke Jumpers Info. The web page quoted the book!You quoted the book. But must not understand they made a "live", real, fire jump in 1940. You don't just do that with out testing. Why is this so hard for you to understand? It takes a person with certain skills to do what they did. Trained, Practiced, Perfected, and Maintained, HANDS ON SKILLS. The 555th when they arrived in the NW in May of 1945, had to add to their already established parachuting skills. Yet, this still does not equate to the skills needed to be the hijacker. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

I was NOT quoting from the same article - I was quoting from the book! We just happened to have been on the same page and you will note there is a big difference between a book and a computer where the information has been twisted and / or forgotten by the the young person who is doing the computer programming. [RED]I WASN'T READING THE SAME THING YOU GUYS WERE READING - THOSE STATEMENTS COME OUT OF A BOOK WRITTEN IN 1953.[/RED] Tall Timber Pilots Can you post the full of the text from page 124 please? Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Jo, that jump did not just happen out of thin air! It was not a "hey guys here is an idea!" moment and then they loaded up in a plane and went to a fire! That happens after the testing of the theory! that happened in 1939! So Dreery taught a SQUAD OF USFS Firefighters in 1941, OK, now what? (Maybe you should scan this books relevant pages, including the pre 1940 stuff) Still, you can't learn freefall jump skills, WATCHING static line jumpers. It take mastery of those skills, a certain set of skills! Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Wrong: Correct Answer -The first organized fire jump in the United States was at 3:57 p.m. July 12, 1940. Deep in the Nez Perce National Forest in Idaho. His name was Rufus Robinson.First Live Fire Fighting Jump, to be clear. Wrong 2 Times: Correct Answer - In 1941 Frank Derry started to train 7 young men at the Winthrop Base and the project leader for Region One. Then that project Leader (Art Cochrane) and Derry went to Missoula to train the 1st squad in Missoula. This is documented history of the USFS SJ's, point? Are your kidding me? Jo, your comprehension on this is baffling. They TESTED the concept in 1939, then used it live in 1940. We are reading the same text, read it again! The 555th arrived in the NW in May of 1945, read it again! It means nothing since Duane was not with them! And even if he was you can't learn the skills needed to be at the level required to pull of the highjacking, by observation! The person who did the highjacking had Skills, a certain set of skills. Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

I wonder shy Jo copied your second fact, but not your first? Yes, I did bold the 1940 part. It is key after all and a factual part of history. If a person can't be trusted with this facts and has to deny them, what can they be trusted with? Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Jo, I fully understand that the Smoke Jumpers Started testing in 1939 and did fight their first fire in 1940, jumping into it. I also fully understand that the 555th activated as a Company in 1943, expanded to a Battalion in 1944, and then went to the NW to AUGMENT the USFS and fight fires started by the Japanese Fire Bombs. YOU'RE confusing things. I fully understand these are two different entities, joined only by the history they enjoined in 1945. Are you confusing the USFS Smoke Jumpers, with the 555th "Triple Nickles" other nick name they earned in 1945, "Smoke Jumpers"? and thus incorrectly thinking I do not know they are two different entities and the Second "Smoke Jumpers" are the 555th and the first the USFS? Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Yep, look at the quotes, same quotes I used, same on the dates. But They can't be right because the guy with Alzheimer's that Jo spoke to says some thing different. November 0f 1944 the 555th was still at Bragg NC. hmmm. Matt WRONG INFORMATION AGAIN. I SPOKE WITH LLOYD WHO IS VERY SOUND OF MIND. SEE U CANNOT EVEN GET THAT STRAIGHT SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET ANYTHING ELSE STRAIGHT. NOW U SAY 1944 AND THAT IS CORRECTED, BUT WHEN THEY GOT TO WA. THEY DID NOT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE JUMPING IN THE HEAVY FOREST AND WITH THE SPECIALIZE EQUIPMENT - THEY GOT SOME VERY QUICK LESSONS FROM DERRY IN WA. THE 555 WAS NOT SMOKE JUMPERS IN 1945. JUST MILITARY JUMPERS. JUMPERS WHO FELT THEY WERE BEING SENT TO WA -TO DO THE WHITE MANS DIRTY WORK TO HELP FIGHT FIRES. THEY WERE UNAWARE OF THE BALLOON BOMBS...AS THIS WAS KEPT UNDER WRAPS UNTIL THEY ARRIVED IN WA. WHEN THEY GOT THERE - THEY MADE HISTORY. IT WOULD BE 1945 BEFORE THEY BECAME THE NICKELS. Since you now are saying what I have said all along about the 555th, what is your point? Thank You for admitting the USFS Smoke Jumpers started in 1939 and the 555th showed up in the NW in 1945, after starting as a Company in 1943 (the 555th PIC) and as a Battalion activated and being flagged in Nov 1944 (as the 555th PIB), at Fort Bragg. It is progress. Now the "down line" and "drop line" thing can be cleared up. Down line, used by the Smoke jumpers to lower themselves down out of trees upon landing in one. Drop Line, Equipment Drop Line, or Equipment Lowering Line, used by and individual to lower his equipment before landing. Now your stating Duane, learned how to jump by watching the 555th chute up for their fire fighting mission jumps, is this correct? Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!

Oh yeah, right, a brown one. Sorry~ Matt An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!!