kbordson

But what I was trying to allude to was the fact that if the other doctors refuse to even tell her about it and she takes 3-4 days (or more) to deal with the trauma of the rape and then realize..."What if I'm pregnant?" and then go to her OB/GYN... then it becomes an Ab.. and not a prevention of the pregnancy. Now she has to deal with that ethical situation that could have been prevented had the doctor simply told her of ALL her options and had her make the decision best for her.

[replyOnce again, when does life start? I believe that those that believe live starts the second the sperm and egg make contact, are against the morning-after pill because they believe that live has started. but if the primary mechanism of action is to delay ovulation, then it is not producing an abortion and not taking a life. It is preventing conception. So they should have that option and it should be her choice. Now if someone wants to influence that timeframe, then it might become an issue of abortion.

It makes the lining unable to support a fetalized egg. The egg and sperm have already combined. Your knowledge is off. Actually he's right. I not only thought that, but also did a literature review to confirm it. The mechanism of action of Plan B is primarily by preventing ovulation or fertilization (by altering tubal transport of sperm and/or ova). In addition, it may inhibit implantation by altering the endometrium. May... not the primary mechanism of action. Plan B is not effective if a woman is pregnant. Plan B is a contraceptive and cannot terminate an established pregnancy. reference Consumer info and Pub Med Abstract and Green Journal Abstract So with that now set and referenced, we are just down to "beliefs".... and I believe that the woman should have the choice.

Cuba Libres rock.... I really like using Black Diamond (I know, not the most expensive rum, but hey, I'm not a high maintaince type anyway) Rum.... good sugar gone bad, what's not to like? But, to really party, you need to throw a GoFast and Vodka in there every so often (or if you're in a regular bar - redbull and vodka... but drink the rum first so the taste of the redbull isn't so bad)

How dedicated are you? If you want a true challenge, how about Clay?

Another way to view this discussion (rather than the now over-done my religions says this....) is to bring up the physicians role in patient education.... Paternalistic vs. Autonomy In years past, most major medical decisions were left exclusively in the hands of physicians. They were usually made with beneficent intent but without open discussion, much less the full participation of the patient. This paternalistic approach had some benefits. Physicians struggled to make the best possible decisions on behalf of patients, and they spared patients and their families from agonizing about interventions that had little chance of working. Practitioners also had much more control over the way that medical technology, with its increasing potential to help as well as to harm, was used. In retrospect, physicians now see obvious problems with excessive paternalism: It can be difficult to determine what a patient's best interests are; inappropriate biases caused by sex, religion, race, and socioeconomic status can affect decision making; and patients can be deprived of the opportunity to make decisions that reflect the reality of their conditions So another topic of discussion is what should the role of YOUR doctor be... do you want them to give you all the information, or do they get to pick and choose what information is best for you?

Very interesting thread and some very well thought out posts. Some quick background on my perspective. I am 34 years old, an OB/GYN resident, a DO (as opposed to an MD, so never took the Hippocratic Oath), raised Catholic and went to Catholic grade school through 8th grade, was "excommunicated" for marrying my husband as he has never had his previous marraige annulled, and now have a personal "relationship" with those above me. I have been on both sides of the hospital bed in this situation.... I have given this some thought. What I chose to do, or what I choose to believe for moral reasons has so VERY LITTLE to do with what I tell my patients. It is not my place to tell them what to think or what to feel. I give options. Risks, benefits and alternatives... full and informed consent. And I do it in terms that are "real"... not the medical lingo that is so easy to slip into but truly is a scary language if you don't understand it. And when they ask me "what would you do?" I typically try to reply that I can't answer that. My decisions are based on my beliefs and my understanding of the situation. Neither of which might be where they are. I sometimes mention risks and stakes.... the risks of pregnancy, the risks of STDs, the risks of.... thsoe are quantifiable numbers. One in a 100 or 1:500 or whatever.... but if you're that ONE, then the risks don't really matter... the stakes, we're not betting with penny chips in the kitty, we're talking about this womans future, the possible new life, the effects it will have- both keeping vs. preventing.... stakes are different for everyone and understanding that this person has her own perspective on life is the most important thing that you could do. I am saddened that they had to pass a law to remind doctors to respect patients autonomy, and I am more saddened that it was vetoed. The choices are very important... especially in a setting where this woman has just had her choice forcibly removed. What she decides is her life.... and I am angry when anyone, be it a he or she, doctor or politician, liberal or staunch believer, tells her what she should do. Until you are walking in those shoes, it's not your place to judge or decide. What would I do - as her doctor, offer all the options. Would I write the script? Probably. Would I do an abortion? No... but I would refer her to someone who could, by name and number (she's been through enough, why make it a wild goose chase). This might not be in line with some thoughts, and might be perfectly synced with others.... but the the final thoughts here should reflect back on what "her" thoughts would be. Karen

ps.. the time in Madison might be different from the rest of the state. Madison is a wonderful little reality of it's own.

It's about 19 50h right now... Just being helpful.... Karen

How's this for a waffleing stance.... "Yes and No" Let me explain - yes, I feel that the Religious Right has made attempts recently to influence politics and to encourage the passage of (and in some instances actaully ensure the passage of) certain laws of moral conduct. HOWEVER, I also see enough people standing up to some of those laws and opinions and stopping the "forced belief" that some of the restrictions would place. See the thread on the Pharmacist in IL, he was stopped by the gov't from trying to use his religion to influence people. But like wise, there was recently a vote here in KS against gay marraiges (which was passed). So there seems to be a balance at this point about religion and government. I do think, to add to it, that the media does play it up a bit and depending on what you read/who you listen to, you do get a different slant on whether the decisions are "good" or not. Karen

"Layers" is actually a funny term to use to describe people (or even Ogres). It insinuates different identies or changes to the personality. Some people, I guess, might be like that. Showing one style to one group and then changing like a chameoleon to reflect different with another group. But in reality, that person is still the same. The trick is to understand the subtlies of the person to be able to see the person for the big picture... which could include a fun-lighthearted side trying to hijack the thread, the teasing side mentioning the appealing pics previously posted or the deep and meaningful aspect of someone with the desire to feel more thoughtful at that time. Because all of those and then some might be "who" the person really is. As stated previoulsy, the internet makes some cautious, while other are more bold... and the same person might vary between both of the extremes depending on the topic and their mood/level of emotional committment. So trying to "understand" people on the internet is tricky... because of limited exposure times, variances in mood/understanding of those moods and only relying on the text (thus removing all the nonverbal... excluding the little icon thingies, of course.) Anyway... that's just my thoughts on layers (and speaking of layers... I like Parfaits) Karen

I think you're thinking Parfaits? Everybody LOVES Parfaits........

Onions have layers.... so you're like an ogre? (ok, that would be my silly side)

I guess I feel that if the Pope forgave him, who are we to contradict that and say whether he should be allowed to go to the funeral or not. In a way, the funeral is to remember the life of the Pope, but it's not "for him"... he's moved on and I'm sure, very happy with his new accomodations. The funeral is more for those left behind... including this guy. He and the Pope had more of a relationship (ok a VERY DYSFUNCTIONAL one) than the Pope and the majority of those going to the funeral. But as stated above, it's the "should he be allowed out of jail" question that is more the one to ask.

no... it's only the relief of getting rid of the old nasty cast that makes you think the new one smells "nice" and if he's not careful, it sounds like he might end up damaging his south paw too....

we never said that the guys were smart -- we know you all go for the pretty thangs Its us women that look deeper and go for more than looks It's that bonus DNA that we get.... (guys with just that little Y... not much info there, just enough to tell them to look for the pretty things.... and ..... ohhh, shiny)

Excellent description. Besides, I'm sure everyone has gotten that email that asks you to try to remember the last five pulitzer prize winners, the last five MVP, the last five.... and no-one (ok, maybe just not me) can think of all those "important" people. Then it asks the top five influences in your life, the top five teachers, the top five truly "important" people. Goals are just what you make to keep from getting too bored.

Nice one there.....

Ummm... using the line "these aren't the droids you are looking for" will will cause them to "move along" and you not get you the "hottest chicks"

as for the rest.... girls can take care of that too.... not that it's not a nice "bonus"... but the guy is there to bring laughter and joy and encouragement.... Whether he's big/small, heavy/thin, rich/poor, It's all about the Karen

At least having sex does increase the temperature in the room... nothing wrong with that at all. Waking up at 3am, cold... lots of ways to "warm up" besides just being a bedhog... but, if also feeling lazy, then just taking up the same actual coordinates is an option too.

You know this is heading downhill from there.. lol I don't mind "heading downhill"..... it's all good! (so, would you complain about the bed hog then?!)

Well.... some are but I'm not telling you who..... Most of them, however, are just poor fools who have to keep fixing peoples that keep using their broked ass wrists instead of learning to let others "take care" of them instead I've been to Raeford... I know that there are cute girls there that are more than "capable" of "helpin ya out." Seriously though, sorry that you don't get the cast off yet. And the repetative promises of "next time" aren't very nice. I hope it heals up well!! Karen

I'm not techinically a bed hog. But I do cuddle a bit... mainly cuz I have no thermal capacity of my own. But anyway, I keep moving closer, he moves away, I move closer... you get the picture... by morning it's a thin sliver of bed being used.... and he's grumpy.

Down in Peru, one of the other docs got a bit of a bug and was working hard on dehydrating himself. I went to the local pharmacy, got a bag of IV fluid, IV tubing, IV start set, some reglan (no zofran, phenergan or compazine at that pharmacy).... and total - about 20 sole (about $8). Now granted, I had to know what to get, and I had to start the IV myself.... but still. I was amazed at how little it actually cost!!!