GQ_jumper

Everything you write suggests that citizens should approach cops as they would an adversary. This is an INAPPROPRIATE way of thinking about cops unless you are a criminal or living in a police state. Quote So what would the write answer be, you know the one that shows we aren't in a police state? Would approaching a police officer in a dark alley, unidentified, with your hand tacked into your jacket be a good way to ensure we aren't heading towards a police state? Tell me Kallend how many times have you been toe to toe with someone holding a gun to your head, how many times have you had to make the split second decision of whether or not to take a man's life? It's sad that you have such a disrespect for any type of authority figure that taking a few small steps to show them that you are a friend not a threat brings this country one step closer to being in a state of marshall law. And Livendive, I wasn't trying o say that the cop was completely innocent in this case, we don't know that yet. However his actions were greatly provoked by a homeowner approaching him with a firearm. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I find the suggestion that the way to approach a cop coming to your house is with hands up "vexing". Quote I find it "vexing" that you so effortlessly take snippets of what people say and use them to further your argument by taking that out of context. If you read my original post you will see that I did not merely say put your hands up, actually if you look closer you will notice directly behind that where it says in a non-threatening position. Which basically means put you hands so he can see that there is nothing in them. Which would be exactly the same as putting your hands on the steering wheel when you are being approached after being pulled over. Regardless of the context of my original post though, why would approaching an officer searching your house with your hands above your head be unreasonable? Maybe to you it sounds like a way to approach the gestapo, but to the officer it takes one hell of a burden off their shoulders because they now know that they don't have to make the immedeate decision to use deadly force. Put yourself in the officers shoes for one second and try and do his/her job. I have personally been in a room barely larger than a walk-in closet with 10+ insurgents all carrying concealed weapons who wanted to kill me and if you could imagine how hard it was to make the decision to kill everyone of them or take them alive as I was trying to force their hands over their heads it was more than enough to make most people pull the trigger. That decision is one of the hardest a person can ever have to make, so why not take a few steps to make that decision a bit easier? History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Exactly. I still think it would be entertaining at the least and probably beneficial.Quote Entertaining yes, beneficial, I dunno bout that one!! Gallagher ran in Cali, I'm still not sure if it helped in any way, except to distract the idiots from messing up the vote And yep, I'll be back in 3 weeks, I can't wait History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'm sorry but I still fail to see how my original post about how I disagree with someone like Charles Barkley running for office would make you doubt my allegiance to the culture of the country I defend. People make statements all the time claiming that Bush has no business being in office, do you say the same thing to everyone of them? Yes, he has every right to run when he's eligible, but me saying he has no business running is a personal opinion and a figure of speech, nothing more. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

So because I say that I don't want to see a certain person in office that makes you think I was born in another country? sorry I idn't word the OP in a manner more to your liking, if you had seen the announcement I'm sure you would feel the same way, but either way that's a pretty fucked up statement, saying you wonder if I was born abroad. I've been out of the US twice in my life and both times it was to fight for this country, and I take it pretty personally when someone questions whether or not I'm a true American. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I saw it on CNN earlier this afternoon, he said 2014 because he just purchased a home there and that is how long he has to live there before he is eligible. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Sometimes I question if you were born abroad and just moved to the US for the women.Quote care to elaborate History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Is the problem that he had a poorly thought out opinion, or that it was the wrong opinion on the Iraq war? Quote Poorly thought out opinion, that's what I had an issue with. If you want to have an opinion that contradicts mine you are more than welcome to it and I will respect it, even though I disagree with it. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I just watched his announcement, he claims he is going to run for political office in Alabama in 2014. He has no business doing that, when asked what party he affiliated himself with he looked totally confused. He can barely speak, and his views on the situation in Iraq sounded like they were from someone who had read a few snippets on the news ticker and formed an opinion about the entire conflict based on them. This is sad History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

False dichotomy: there is a WORLD of other options between pointing a gun at a cop and putting your hands up when a cop approaches. Quote And when you've already walked out of you home wielding a firearm and you notice a cop coming at you which of those options would be best? History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

If I were to drop whatever I was doing, loudly announce my name and put my hands in the air "in a non-threatening position" when I saw a cop, that would be treating him like an enemy (or at least an adversary.) Indeed, it might actually make the cop _treat_ you like a perpetrator! I don't see cops that way, and I very much doubt you would do that if a cop approached your house. Quote I agree with you again Bill, I guess I should have clarified exactly what I was trying to get across when I said put your hands up and announce yourself. I was gearing that statement more towards this particular situation. If I heard someone enter my home, armed myself and went to investigate the first thing I would do if I saw it was a cop would be just that. Announce myself put the weapon down and step away from it with my hands up. Every situation is different, but one thing remains the same in all of them, if you take an active role in identifying yourself as non-threatening to the officer you have nothing to worry about. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Who wrote that the correct response to a cop who comes calling was "... put your hands up"? Oh, it was you! You have the most amazing way of twisting what people say, How can a direct quote of what you wrote be twisting it? It's about context. The CONTEXT is a cop approaching your house. That is exactly what he wrote. "you see police officers approaching your house LOUDLY identify yourself put your hands up into a non-threatening position and follow the officers directions" Seems like an appropriate response to the Gestapo coming calling, but my local neighborhood cop? - Get real. OK let's see, cops get shot everyday doing routine work. countless cops have lost their lives when they were simply approaching a driver for a traffic stop and the driver pulled out a gun and shot. So it's easy to understand that regardless of the situation a cop wants to to on their guard and ready for anything. So would you consider it making them an enemy or putting their mind at ease by showing them that you want to cooperate and help them do their job. Is it 100% necessary to do this everytime you are approached? No, it isn't. Is it a good idea to assume a non-threatening posture(non-threatening can mean anything from putting your hands up to identifying yourself and simply putting your hands somewhere visible) when being approached by a cop? Absolutely. Doing so in no way makes the cop an enemy, it shows that you are not a threat, and willing to cooperate to help resolve a situation. I see only one person in this discussion making the cops the enemy and that's you. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Who wrote that the correct response to a cop who comes calling was "... put your hands up"? Oh, it was you! You have the most amazing way of twisting what people say, especially when you are twisting the words of one of the people who for the most part always defends the cops in discussions such as this. So how does me saying that you should approach a cop searching your home in a non-threatening manner imply that the cop is the enemy? That would be like saying that turning the light on in your car and putting your hands on the wheel while the cop approaches you during a traffic stop is making him/her the enemy. Police officers are attacked all the time for doing their jobs, so showing yourself to not be a threat is simply ensuring the safety of both you and the cop. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

That's the second time in two weeks that someone suggests treating cops like an enemy.Quote How did I suggest that? Please explain. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I still think that mandatory training and education would not be such a bad thing for those who want to own a gun. Quote I'll second that one History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

That casket needs to be about two feet wider History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Agreed. The weapon he was carrying merely made the outcome of his bad decisions worse. Quote I agree with you 100% Bill, I just disagree with Kallend implying that it's the fault of gun ownership. When someone uses a firearm to protect their home in a reasonable manner you don't have situations like this. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Simple solution, you see police officers approaching your house LOUDLY identify yourself put your hands up into a non-threatening position and follow the officers directions. The majority of these accidental shooting are the fault of the "victim". This guy brought it on himself, he was in his house so he held the "high ground" if someone was coming after him, why would you leave the house and level the playing field? He was an idiot and brought this on himself by running out with a weapon looking for a fight. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I don't know about that. I think we can fairly conclude that having a gun in the home for self-defense may well backfire on you.Quote As previosly stated it wasn't simply the fact that the homeowner had a gun that caused the incident, the homeowner took the wrong actions and that is what caused the incident. Pretty weak argument you have there Kallend. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Your perfectly right... but I don't think Valentine is the final aim Quote So we can assume we'll see you guys together through the next WM? I'll be looking forward to it, nice flyin History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Alright then next question anyone know if video has been posted anywhere? There's a round or two I'd like to see how some teams engineered it. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Thanks for the well wishes guys, I had an awesome time jumpin yesterday, it was the first time I've done 4 way in about 8 months and I was pretty happy with how I was flying after that long break. And Remi, you're just jealous that you didn't get the tats first History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Andy Honigbaum is nowhere to be seen and was invited onto Airspeed a couple of years before Andy D and Eric. What is the story?????: Quote I haven't heard anything since nationals but am also curious about where Andy is at the moment. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

That's why I go by the psuedo name Captain America, when I set up accounts at DZ's History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

It depends on how lonely I am at the moment History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower