killler

Micheal... You are a sr. rigger that got his ticket 3 yrs ago and your going to tell a master rigger thats been rigging for 20+ yrs and got his masters ticket over ten years ago how the reg's and TSO's work? Because someone said something does not make it true... The FAA is great at giving four different answers from two different offices.... Till you see a AD or a CSB it just words.... Just like a TBO on aircraft power plants... Part 135 needs to do it and part 91 just keep on flying.... And just so you know The TSO does not "void" because the owner of it goes out of business... Killer....

Seventy-two local, state and federal officers died from traffic-related accidents while 57, about one-third, died from shootings... Source: Yahoo News Don't know were they were going? But they hit something Killer....

2/3 die in trafic accidents only 1/3 die of gun shots... Sounds like they need Driver ED.... Killer....

And I'd love to know how you get that I said rapid links are better then slinks ... when I said they work equally well for the job at hand... I like rapid links you don't.. Do slinks have a higher "WORKING" load limit then a #5 rapid link... Yes... and a #5 rapid is stronger then a #4 and a #4 is stronger then a #3 does that mean you only pack rigs with a #5 rapid link before the slinks were put on the market? Killer....

Very easy... The weakest link is the fabric.... There for the links do not really matter do they... If PD thought that slinks were so much better then rapid links they would ground all rapid links and make you replace them with slinks... Has not happened yet... Killer

I don't need to... Never said it in the first place... You think I said it... I just said they are not SAFER IMO.... You can make a slink to hold 40 tons for all I care.... It's no safer then a rapid link thats been install the right way... Killer... edited to add... I'm not the one who said anything about the cypres, another jumper used the cypres as why GQ could ground the system...

For example, the manufacturer can say you can only jump their rigs if you are wearing a pink jumpsuit or can only us xyz reserve, but that means nothing. It would be interesting if you asked your rigger if they have ever packed any other reserve besides a Safety Flyer into a Vector II Derek Think I wonder how many incidents have been avoided because DZ.com exists? are your own words about the Faa and rigs Those are your words not mine... You just like to play games with words.... I'm done playing with this, You know it all and thats that... When you get your Master rigger ticket you'll be gods gift to skydiving... Door................. Killer... Edited to add; Yes I think people jumping sub 135 sqft chutes and little reserves are fools and just waiting for the right place to make there hole in the ground... They are Death rigs.... And I think that riggers that pack them are not give them a safe rig to use...

derek, You keep saying rapid links fail... They fail when you don't install them right...Just like a slink can fail when install wrong... Just like you said in your good/bad post about 50 posts ago... And I know that the weakest point in a parachute/harness system is the fabric along side a seam...then it moves down the line to the main lift webbing... Each part does it own work as it was made to do... "Work" is the word we use to talk about forces working on a given thing.... Like the "WORKING" load of a slink.... Now if you let your rapid links get rusty and loose then you should use slinks... I keep mine and the othr jumpers gear in better shape... I ask you to go read the first post of this thread... And to stop and think about what was said... Read how I said slinks were fine... Read how I said "I" would not use them on "MY" rig... Thats all I said.. If you think/know that slicks are the best thing since sliced bread, Then great... And as the other part about sac's/systems are grounded... Show me the FAA AD/CSB... Till I see them your just repeating words.... The cypres and the sac/GQ are apples and bananas... Not even close... Killer...

Quote*** Once lines stretch to their maximum stretch point, they transmitt 100% of the forces to the links and to the risers. *** Your wrong about that... As the line stretchs it is using up force... It is doing "WORK" thats how you make the opening loads go away.... If you can't see that a 4yr check done twice is gives you a life of 12 years... Then I give up... Not a thing is wrong with slinks... And not a thing wrong with rapid links... I'LL stop using them when I get my AD/CSB from the FAA... There is a weak point in "EVERYTHING" if you can build a harness and parachutes that have no falure point lets see it... Your a master rigger.... Why do we put a drop stitch when sewing on the 3ring release to the main lift webbing.... Killer....

They just tell you right out that the 3rd 4yr check is a waste of time... It's still a 4yr cycle... 4/8/12... Get it... I love how people take one word and fail to read all the words.... I've got a few people that read all that I have written and have no trouble understanding what I stated... It's only when you read the white instand of the black that theres a problem.... Killer

I'll try this one more time.... The point about Bill Booth and the problem with microline and mini risers have NOT one thing to do with useing slinks or rapid links.... It was to point out that a system needs to be balanced to work right... Change a part of the system and the whole thing changes.... Now... Making the slink supper stong does NOT make the system stronger.... The rapid link is not and has never been the falure point in a parachute system.... The falure point in most cases is the fabric and the line atachment point the the line then the link then the webbing then the stiching of the harness.... If I make everything as strong as I can... Some thing must fail.... Everthing fails at some point... The key to building anything is to make all parts share the "WORK"... And then we have balance.. So back to the point.... A rapid link is not going to fail as is a slink will not fail in said system ... This thread is about things installes wrong... I like rapid links.... I like to use tools... Makes me feel manly I guess? Slinks are to cool for me... I like balance in a system.... You like slinks... It's fine with me... And I would pack a rig with slinks just like I'd pack a rig with rapid links... Al the same to me... Killer

A rapid link gives... it will you up forces in bending there by putting less load on the next point in the system... The spinning mal was a remark to making one part stronger to the point that it overloads the system as it was before the adding of the supper strong point... It was a post Bill Booth had made in the thread about Chris not being able to cut away I think... I'd need to look to find it...He was talking about systems being overloaded do to a new force being add that was not there when the whole system was put in to service.... Like when they went to microline with mini-risers and they were braking and you had a hard time to cutaway.. I don't think that slinks are no good... It's just that rapid links work just fine and can handle the loads that were talking about... It is that easy... Killer...

. Again, I have to agree with Hook on this one. There should be no "feeling" about where the failure point should be on a reserve. If you have opportunity to strengthen the system then one should do so. Here's a test. Go match a properly installed Maillon Rapide link against a Slink and tell us which one breaks first. I'll need to go find the tread were Bill Booth talked about micro-line over loading the risers and a small chute in a spin over loading the the force on the cutaway cable and the need to now install hard housings to take the new loads on the system... It's not about what brakes.... It's about even forces spread over the whole system... Like I said now 15times.... Slinks work fine as do rapid links... Slinks are not "BETTER" in that they do not make the system safer then a rapid link... Killer... your turn

Boy.... You like to go at it... The cypres has a use life of 4yrs/+ -3months... thats at 4yrs/8yrs/and 12yrs.... If you send it back to them at the 4yr and they say it no good,,, well it no good.... When you send it in for it 3rd 4yr check They are going to tell you its no good... Same thing as a before.... If you fail to return it at the 3rd 4yr check then it is no good because you failed to get it checked... And as you know... There is not a thing wrong with most cypres's after 12yrs... They just won't pass them...So they can sell you a new one... Now when they get someone sell a AAD with no time MAX taking away there sales market... You will see them changing there story about the service life... Back to a every 4yr check...4/8/12/16/20 and on.. It's about money..... Now to the links.... The forces that you have in freefall are "X" and that number is made up of your Speed and Mass... When you throw out the pilotchute you start to get rid of "X" force... The more parts of the system that can EAT up that force the less force the next part has to take... Thats why a Parachute made out of Z-P and micro-line opens harder then the same chute built out of F-111 and dacron lines.... the dacron lines and F-111 Give or eat more forces as they have more give... Micro-line and Z-P don't "GIVE" thats why they hurt you if you don't pack them to open slow.... Your turn.... Killer...

No... Cypres said that it must be sent to the factory ever four years for a check up... If at that check up it fails the testing standerd that they have then it no good... Now if GQ sent a AD to the FAA stating that all tso'd gear must be sent back to them for inspection.... And the FAA approved that AD/CSB then it would be part of the manual/instructions for use... Airtec was also bring out a new product and did not set a time limit max on its life... They said they would look how things went as they looked a cypes's after service in the field... Thats not the same as a company voiding ALL tso's because they don't want lawsuits against them.. Killer.... Just go to the FAA site and get Me the AD that removes the rig from service.... It's not there...

We are talking about a miss install rapid link... Thats what this whole thread was about... Now I have said atlest ten times that slinks are fine and do there job just fine... I would not use them on a reserve for my on feeling about were the failure point should be... If you feel better jumping with slink have at it... Everyone knows that the forces of opening need to be spread out and if every part takes part of the load then the system works... Parts fail when one or more parts fails to take its share of the opening forces... Did you read your number two reason I qouted? Killer...

Dave you hit the nail on the head... It's all a point of view as to what you want to use.... I just hate when people diss stuff for no reason... I would rather have a bent rapid link then a totally fail slink.. Thats just me... To each is own... Killer...

Lock Tight keeps the link from working loose over time. The differences between soft links are: 1) If you install the soft links and Rapide links correctly, the soft links are stronger 2) Soft links are most likely to fail on opening if they fail, and fail completely. Rapide links can fail on opening and hang onto the lines just barely. 3) soft links do not require a wrench, nail polish, lock tight and bumpers to install. They also do not require replacing the bumpers or any maintenance beyond a quick once over every 30 days or so. 4) The only soft link failure I have heard of was caused by sharp edges on the slider grommet because the jumper didn't have bumpers on their rapide links and didn't stow their slider. So the slider grommets got beat up and after they installed the slinks without inspecting their slider grommets, the grommet cut through the slink. Very poor maint by the jumper. I can't see any reason to use rapide links with Slinks available. Derek Derek.... Read Line number two.... Thats what you wrote not me... Your just poved my point for me... Thanks...killer...

No directive was ever filed with the faa stating that the TSO was null and void after 15yrs after DOM.. I have gone over this with the FAA and they see nothing that removes the TSO for the rig.. Now.... If you have a rig with a DOM after the 15yr life was added then you would need to follow that.. If you could just add a time limit after the fact then cessna and all the other companys would ground ever plane over 5000hrs or 10years what ever comes first.... Killer...

So where do you get safer with a slink that is stronger then everthing else? Does not make any sence to me... You keep saying that slinks are some much better then a rapid link... I just don't see how you get there???? Are you saying we're lucky to be alive have jumped with rapid links for 30years? And now we are safer? The 3ring over the capewell? yes... The slink over the rapid link? No... Killer...

It doesn't matter what *your* manual says. If a manufacturer has issued a directive, the onus is on *you* to be in compliance with that directive. And, just for the record, soft links in general aren't new. They've been around for a long while. Been around the block wayyyyy longer then you kris.. I know the sport and rigging VERY well Killer....

I understand that... I give a cop the respect he gives me... Be a a$$... I'll give it right back ten fold over... I don't back down... NEVER... Not in my blood.. Killer...

Does not say that in MY manual.... dated 1978 Killer....

Yes I like the rapid link to fail before the riser.. The rapid link will not fail just like the slink won't fail a line or more likly a line atachment point would fail at those loads... This can go round and round... Rapid link/slink/rapid link/slink... Slinks are no better then a rapid link.... And your no smarter or better off with a slink then a rapid link... They look cool and are NEW... big deal... To get back to the tread.... If your a ding-bat and install something wrong it will fail.... A slink installed wrong is more likly to total fail then a rapid link IMO.. Now I'm done.... DOOR... Killer...

Not one comment in the TSO that said it's grounded after 15 years... Looked all over the FAA site... GQ did that after the fact to cover their a$$.. If you buy in to the manufacture can at any time pull a tso for No reason other then to save there butt then ALL of them would do it... It still passes the TSO-c23b standard there for it airworthy.. Killer...