Praetorian

Sorry to be the one who says this but after all of the other threads about the waiver I have to ask. you did read it right? (toung in cheek not trying to be a dick ...) A good DZO would have a serious talk with such a pilot, maybe even can his ass, a good pilot who made a mistake would be sorry and maybe offer to pay for repairs... but don't count on either. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I have a protrack in one ear and a prodyter in the other BOTH in my protec .. they fit in the foam padding nicely. both work great. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

First get better at telling your altitude by REALLY looking at the ground, you should be able to guess when your getting close to pull time. Second do what I did with your audible set them for just after breakoff, just after pulltime and hard deck. That way you get a beep AS you are tracking off and a beep while you chute is opening (learn to do and get confirmed NOT learn to do as the beeps tell you to do) ... but what do I know I'm just a 100 jump wonder Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Wait till you get a good amount of RW jumps in start to build an internal clock then start to work on Freefly... my first solid sit/stand I glance at my wrist alti with my internal clock telling me to expect just under 6K .. alit is just crossing 4.5K and my audible starts screaming (I still tend to pull around 4 so I wanted to be back on my chest and slowing down by 5K or so) ... WONT MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

So I'm curious, if you could only jump one type of jumpship from now on, would you rather have an Otter/caravan type or a tail gate skytruck, skyvan (c-130) BE FAIR all else being equal, climb rate room cost etc. and because I cannot think of a way to include the little cessnas lets leave them out of this discussion Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I hope you are trying to be funney, to pratice in the U.S. they have to pass the final Bord exams reguardless of their position in the class .. also remember even the DEAD last place student was still good enough to get into medical school not that easy of a task Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

You handled it better than I would have! I'd have tried to bump end Knuckles with that point between his eyes! Its not so much the MASSIVE STUPID ... its trying to involve me in his MASSIVE STUPID without talking to me about it first. Had he talked to me about it first I've have told him hell no when I managed to stoplaughing. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

on my first static line walking to the cessna I was .. (adjusting so to speak) the JM saw stopped me and the other male student and said "The dropzone is the one place where it is totally fine to adjust your shit because the first time you don't may be the last time you need to" Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I've been 2nd seat on a quite a few loads at SDC (full load a jumper takes copilot seat) First the visability is not as bad as you think, second you are looking where you are going, to intersect you have to cross flight path and nose up you are looking up ... but you are going up. To some small extent you do have a blind spot but for another plane to hit you its pilot would have to not see you either SORRY I'm NOT A PILOT so you can Ignor my reply if you wish Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

So if the USPA changed the rules and made AADs mandatory for all as they are for tandem jumps .. then this whole arguemnt ENDS??? all logic all compairsons and someone saying "its ok I have a cypres is suddenly ok if its because of a rule?? NOT a responce to Anyone in specific... to the logic that students NEED an aad .. BS other then the rule saying I had to have one to jump my cypres on my student gear was as it should be INERT I pulled for myself EVERY time. on any Jump you land that you did it right you did not NEED your reserve or your AAD or your helmet etc ... the problem is you never know you dont need them till the jump is over Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I'm thinking about my novice 4 way team (we're still working on a name) and I was thinking about break off Standard is everyone 180 and tracks out from center... doing this puts EVERYONE out of sight of everyone else... I was thinking if we all turned 90deg R (or L as long as we all agree plan the jump jump the plan) we still achieve the same seperation (all moving out from center) but we each have at least one other is sight assuring we have seperation, as we are all novices I think this Is a better plan ... opinions? thoughts? Input? ..ESPECIALLY if I'm totally wrong!! Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

did everyone know the plan on you staying and them tracking? if yes ... PLAN THE JUMP>> JUMP THE PLAN ... man the ASS CHEWING I would have given him on the ground Edit to add ... and the second guessing of myself as to thinking more of the shot than my safey that was supposed to be coverd by the plan ... but I'd still wonder if it was my fault in some way Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Just answer the reserve part on the assumption that either you manged to pull or an aad fired. If you landed under YOUR reserve unconcious or with NO input, no flare.... would you live and or how bad do you think you would be hurt if : 1A open field. just tuched down on grass and sild to a stop 1B smacked into the side af a farm house 2 feet before your limp dangling feet would have touched ground If you landed YOUR reserve with: 2A MINIMAL imput following AAD fire or EXTREEM low pull from loosing alt awareness. 2B Awake and aware but with 1 arm useless, vision blured all in all fuckedup and not flying near you NORMAL much less you best. I was thinking about ULTRA small reserves and got to thinking, under a LOT of conditions you are under reserve in something LESS than ideal mental and physical state to be a pilot, pick a landing spot and flare. Under my Reserve I Could PLF a NO flare landing and walk away un hurt. I could land with no input and likely do nothing worse than break a bone or two. Assuming I did not smack a 30story building, land on a spike or in a lake while unconcious I'd live There are a lot of skydivers who I DOUBT would could even bluf themselves into thinking they could have a good outcome from a no input landing on their tiny reserve... I'll quote a VERY experienced jumper " no I don't have a cypres it would only fire if I was out cold ... and I doubt I would live under my reserve landing it unconcious" Thoughts?? EDIT .. For extra credit consider all of these landing opitons with the added variable of UP/DOWN/CROSS WIND ... and for those over achievers HIGH or NO wind(for really high wind assume it changed after lift off) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Yes Responsible jumpers are SAFER in all respects of skydiving except the "shit happens/murphy/hell is other people" aspect of the sport where all of these risks apply on every jump and nothing can be done about them ... except wearing an AAD which MIGHT reduce some of the risk of dieing They might, but I get really pissed when people tell me what I'm thinking don't you? So believe me or not I choose to jump only with an aad and yet make EVERY jump on the assumptions that 1 I will pull for myself and 2 the AAD is there only as a back up ... I accept that I might screw up I'm not happy about that but it might happen and if it happens I'd rather be ashamed of it and learn ... then be dead .. which might happen anyway AAD or not ... Its a HELL of an expensive insurance pollicy ... but its insurance I'd rather have and not need .. then need and not have. DZOs have the right to enforce ANY policies they see fit .. Jumpers have the right to follow those rules or jump elsewhere If you don't want an AAD for any jump thats your call, if you have one and turn it off (or dont turn it on) for any jump (accept one where the design of the jump would render it useless or even make it a danger) WHY THE HELL DID YOU WASTE YOUR MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE ... do you call and cancel you car insurance before going for a sunday drive in the park just because you dont plan on going oven 25mph and the weather is nice? Me too .. my reply was not directed at you but the world over all NICE POST wonder where its gonna go.... oh and Phew that felt good to have a solid well laid basis to bounce my rant off THANKs Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

If you hand known there was a 1/500 (probably higher as you 6 mals on THIS main are prabably on less than 3000 jumps right?) chance of an unrecoverable malfunction when you purchased this main would you have purchased it? would you have let the fact that you have a reserve be part of that decision process? Edited to make sense ... or more sense anyway Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

...no one (I'm pretty sure no one I could be wrong) would make the choice to jump one of the cutting edge tiny super eliptical mains if they did not have a reserve... so they ARE INCLUDING A SAFETY BACK UP when they choose their main, useing that safety back up to justify a risk they would otherwise not take... Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

dont go I have not gotten to jump with you... and pick your brain for all your worth ... wait till I get that chance ... then you can sell your gear and quit if you want ..Stop being so selfish .. THINK OF ME!!! Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I totally agree ... and this may be fodder for another thread but why is it the I have a reserve comment ... which has been said in my presence by novices up to 1000+ jump sky gods .. and even given as advice to me when I chose to pick up a failed attempt and start over rather then shove it in the Dbag... acceptable? I 'm not saying one attitude is ok so why is the other I'm saying they are both CRAP and unless said TOTALLY as a joke neither should never be uttered ... and yet the reserve line is common .. I have even seen the same jumper make the comment and then come in with an open reserve If this same jumper had said "thats why I have a cypres" and come in after a cypres fire he waited for he would(should) be grounded Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Damn it... I think we agree but have been talking at cross purposes... PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG) On EVERY jump there are many things that can go wrong, some are adjustable by skill some are not. For those that vary with skill level (and judgement is involved here) EACH jumper sets his or her own limits For those that DO NOT vary with skill and are a part of each jump. we have safety gear like reserves, helmets and aads (yes these can also help REDUCE the concequences of a mis hap from the previous catagory) I think the point is, SET YOUR LIMIT in the first catagory without respect to your safety gear. DO NOT increase that limit because you have safety gear. In MY case I add a Cypres to MY gear for the sole purpose of reducing the risk from the second catagory. I depend on my skill and my judgment of that skill(as well an the judgment of others whom I trust, who know my skill) to decide what jumps I go on. WITHOUT reguard to a helmet or an AAD I'm not saying an AAD will NOT help if I screw up or if my judgment is wrong, its just NOT why I have one. For an AAD to help on a jump I SHOULD NOT have been on I have to get hurt by that jump... I AM NOT WILLING TO INCREASE MY RISK of being injured on a jump just because I have an AAD NO ONE SHOULD BE BECAUSE the non-variable risks EXIST ON EVERY JUMP I CHOOSE to REDUCE them on every jump by having an AAD Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

On EVERY jump there are many things that can go wrong, some are adjustable by skill some are not. For those that vary with skill level (and judgement is involved here) EACH jumper sets his or her own limits For those that DO NOT vary with skill and are a part of each jump. we have safety gear like reserves, helmets and aads (yes these can also help REDUCE the concequences of a mis hap from the previous catagory) I think the point is, SET YOUR LIMIT in the first catagory without respect to your safety gear. DO NOT increase that limit because you have safety gear. In MY case I add a Cypres to MY gear for the sole purpose of reducing the risk from the second catagory. I depend on my skill and my judgment of that skill(as well an the judgment of others whom I trust, who know my skill) to decide what jumps I go on. WITHOUT reguard to a helmet or an AAD I'm not saying an AAD will NOT help if I screw up or if my judgment is wrong, its just NOT why I have one. For an AAD to help on a jump I SHOULD NOT have been on I have to get hurt by that jump... I AM NOT WILLING TO INCREASE MY RISK of being injured on a jump just because I have an AAD NO ONE SHOULD BE BECAUSE the non-variable risks EXIST ON EVERY JUMP I CHOOSE to REDUCE them on every jump by having an AAD Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

And I'm right there with you, but the fact remains doing dangerous things is safER with safety equptment.. NO one considers Formula 1 or indy racing "safe" but the drivers are safER because of their safety gear. There is no dumb ass skydiver out there who is knowingly passing his skills because he has a cypres who would not do the same stupid thing without the cypres .. I suspect the diver who replies "thats what my (NAME AAD HERE) is for " is joking and has already considered the risk, or is playing it off so he wont have to discuss the risks he is taking and etiher be pulled from the load by the DZO or admit to himself that he is cracked and doing something ass stupid... but I'll tell you what If he is going to do something ass stupid anyway I'd rather he have an AAD. The driving force behind a LOT of stupid stuff is showing off macho crap .. please don't encourage a situation where dumb ass X says with pride " yep AND I'm doing it WITHOUT an AAD" insted of the current Macho copout of "thats what my AAD is for" Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I know that is what they do, but if the risks aren't worth it, a Cypres shouldn't make it worth the risk. Um, while I stick with my personal position that I will not do a jump with that I would not do without ... I SEE the logic of a skydiver who has never worried about not pulling for himself adding an AAD to OFFSET the increased risk of not pulling for himself when he adds a student who could kill him... is the aad makeing this dive safer than his normal .. NO is it REDUCING the risk he has added .. well based on track record(of modern AADS) YES So say his chance of death went up 20%(random ass number) when he added the student, and because 10% of that is from the student rendering him unable to pull .. yet still alive... and the cypress is 90% or more, likely to solve that problem he has reduced the risk to 11% insted of 20% for most skydivers this 9% change is MORE than the change adding a Reserve to their gear adds. would I be happy jumping my risk up 11% over normal NO but I'd be happier than 20% how about you? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I give up, no matter how I say it no matter how well I know myself I'm somehow LESS safe because I choose not to jump without a cypres... I don't do any jump with that I would not do without ... but the only way I would jump without is if they did not exist or were proven to increase risk ... Hell I must me MORE willing to get a concussion, break my neck or get any other number of wounds because I have a back up that MIGHT save me AFTER I recieve one of these wounds. I must be less interiested in how far away the ground is/how long I have to live as I'm FALLING TO MY DEATH because I have a device that MIGHT open my reserve, if I fail to save myself .. Hell making my gear check include the cypres must mean I'm more willing to skip over checking the straps, buckles, 3rings, pins .... need I continue? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

WHO DOSE THIS? MAYBE AN AAD IS NOT THE ISSUE... a jumper who will do the equivelant of runnig a red intentionally because they have a cypres would do it "because they have a reserve" or because they have a helmet, or because.... whatever.... NO JUMPER who will put themselves into a worst case senerio just because they have a device that MAY REDUCE the risk in the worst case is going to learn a damn thing from being talked to. lets dis-connect the DON't do STUPID SHIT lesson from the AAD discussion. I choose NOT to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, should I not ride a motorcycle at all because I will not do it with out a safety device? .. What do you think the odds are that I'm more safety concious then an equally qualified equally skilled skydiver/motorcycle rider who says "helmes/cypres ... we dont need no stinking helmets/cypres" The problem with the statment "don't do a jump with a cypres that you would not do without" makes the assumption that there is a connection between choosing to HAVE an AAD, and useing that AAD as a lisence to do stupid shit. THIS IS PROB NOT WHAT YOU MEAN TO SAY ... but it is how it comes across Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

....Its a safety device, it exists it can help ... if you are smart about pull altitude so as not to get a 2 out there is NOTHING but upside to jumping with a modern AAD .... IF they did not exist I would still jump... BECAUSE THEY DO EXIST.. I PERSONALLY FEEL it is STUPID to choose to jump without one. So as long as it is an option to have one I WILL NOT JUMP without one.. I am not dependent I am not being foolish to jump with one when I will not without.. I AM USEING AN ADITIONAL SAFETY DEVICE .. Damn people. this is like telling a teen who ALWAYS puts his seat belt on that he is foolish for getting into a car and driving with a seat belt if he would not be willing to drive that car with his belt off! TURN IT ON, don't intentionally pull low. do everything you can to be safe to MINIMIZE the risk it this DANGEROUS past time we all love Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.