pirana

Not dodgy, just a way of saying we understand things by either experinecing them directly, or by modeling. Just a thought experiment, but think about how many things you believe exist that you have never experienced. We believe an awful lot just by the models in our mind. Nothing wrong with that. Just good for the humility to remind ourselves that so much of what we know relies on what others have communicated to us. A very small handful of people KNOW what the texture of the Moon's surface is, the rest of us KNOW what we have been told. Curious about your last sentence. What is it you have experienced, but deny (or doubt) as existing? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

What show and who said that? Beware of the bad science on many of the cable channels. Given the periods of time involved, there is absolutely nothing about the evolution of life, including the first organisms that could copy themselves, that can not be explained as having truly random beginnings. One of the hang-ups for a lot of people in their inability to understand how random events could lead to life is that they look for a clear demarcation between human invented categories. They expect that one moment there was no such thing as life, and the next moment there was this thing that clearly and obviously was "alive" (whatever that means). Most things in nature exist along imperceivable gradients. The gradient from no life to life is no different. A very small percentage of scientists (or psuedo-scientists) being so impressed with what they find that they conclude that there must be a creator, and that the creator must be God is a long long ways from proving God exists. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Which supplies and by what mechanism? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Now there is a fun question. Would it even be possible? What would constitute proof? My take is that things can be conceptually proven using the usual tools of proof. That only proves something CAN exist, not that it does exist. Can you prove something exists without actually seeing it? Could you prove that automobiles exist without actually showing us one? (I mean without pointing to global warming as the proof?) The only real proof something exists is if you directly experience it. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Good post, and I drink with whoever packs my chute as readily as I drink with whoever will jump with me. Hell, I'll drink with people who won't jump with me. Come to think of it, I'll drink with darn near anybody, including my surgeon. And with all thge money he's made off me, he'd better be buying. No surgery after drinking though. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I do that too (cinch it down, regardless of how it is routed). I have forgotten a couple times, but it was very obvious as soon as I made any movement that the belt was still on. No way was I gonna get close to getting out. I've noticed some people just loop it through or around and leave a boatload of slack. Why wear it if you're gonna do that? Also, I too will keep my belt on sometimes when there is a full Otter load and I'm in the last spot on the bench. Beats fighting my weight, and the weight of those behind me. But again, it is tight enough that I'm not gonna be able to get out with the belt still on. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Guys are studs, women are sluts. Get it right. OK, seriously, the answer to the OP: If you have to ask, then NOW is when you are officially a slut.

"Your mother can't be with you anymore." " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Prove there has ever been contact. Why do the nutjobs always assume that the aliens want to play hide and seek, and that the only ones who seem able to find the aliens are the fringe lunaticas of society? Any civilization advanced enough to make it here would certainly be advanced enough to understand the benefit of engagement over peeking around the corners of clouds and imitating dancing lights for the woo-woo crowd. Show me one shred of credible evidence. Jumpy, grainy, out-of-focus bullshit doesn't count. I could shoot hours of that. What is the point? Go ahead and post a single decent photo or video. I remember a friend taking me up on that offer once. He showed me one of the classic old videos the woo-woos have as a favorite. It is so obviously a child's top, you can see the markings, the wobble, even the little pump handle. What a farce. If you have something better than all the old standbys, let's see it. And that alien DNA stuff. Are you kidding? If that guy is a paid professor, someone is getting badly ripped off. A DNA sequence that has it's own arteries, veins, etc. That is just wet-your-pants hysterical! " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It is a testament to true believers strength of desire that they would submit shit like that and expect people to take it seriously. I will be in the front row when aliens make their first official visit (why the true believer belief that aliens all want to play hide and seek?), but I'm not buying the garbage put forth so far on their behalf. With so much readily available state-of-the-art technology available today, if there was any chance any of these encounters were genuine, we would have much better stuff on them by now. Apply the same type logic to any of the goofball stuff out there. Bigfoot is a good one. If anyone seriously believed it, and really wanted to prove it, they'd have choppers and recon teams on the ready. Next time there is a sighting - BOOM. Scramble the choppers, throw in a few planes with all the latest sensing equipment. Teams of people and dogs on the ground. Scorched Earth level of search. No way no how is some several hundred pound clumsy woodland beast gonna disappear into the woods without a trace. Hell, with forensic sciences these days, people can barely go anywhere w/o leaving a trace. It's a joke what these nutcases want people to believe. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I'm with you on the life-must-be-out-there thing. Just as a matter of probablilities given the vastness of space and time. I think it is best to be cautious on imposing our history on top of what might be happening elsewhere. Could be radically different. For example, I agree it is tempting to imagine what 100 more years will bring. But don't forget large tracts of the civilized world practically stagnated for hundreds of years too. History seems to a mixture of times when the right components come together for truly revolutionary change, and periods where not much happens. And there could be places where the extremes are even more extreme. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Very good fun. Thanx. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Really, what's worse: hairy armpits or fat chicks? A third option comes to mind. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Not while skydiving, but I had a scare with cold water once. On a camping trip, got up in the morning, put on the coffee, and decided to do a morning swim across the pond next to our site. I knew the water was cold but thought "I'll only be in it for a short bit." Huge and nearly fatal mistake. I ran down the bank and dove in. 1st thought was that it was damn cold, but again, the thinking was "I am young, strong, and this won't last long." Unfortunately I had also misjudged the distnace and was way wrong about how long it was going to take. I was about half-way across (wouldn't you know) when I began to realize how much trouble I was in. I was shivering uncontrolably and in real pain. I started to feel numb, but just kept moving. I kept saying to myself "Keep moving, do not stop, just keep moving." I actually closed my eyes so that I wouldn't be constantly reminded of how far away the shore and was and kinda allowed myself to become hypnotized by the words in my head. I was barely moving through the water, but still going forward, in this trance-like state with the words going over and over in my head; keep moving, keep moving, keep moving. Obviously, I made it, and it was the most exhausted I have ever been in my life; no doubt and by far. I just collapsed into a quivering ball of shivers and was just cursing at myself for being so stupid. I really don't know how I did it, force of will was the deciding factor because I really felt like I was slipping away towards the end of the crossing. It actually went thru my head on how it was going to feel to drown. Very scary. I took the footpath around the pond and back to camp. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

That's a huge leap. You mentioned a couple extreme sports behaviors so he sent you to a shrink? Or even the other way; he mentions the natural amphetamine addiction (a.k.a. - adrenaline junkie) and you refer yourself to a shrink? Must have been more to that conversation than that? My guess (just a guess) is that you said things, or he saw things that gave him reason to think about your behaviors, or the motivations for them. All good and well mind you, no criticisms of anything you've put forth. Just saying that it wasn't "by chance" that you were diagnosed. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It? It? Found that humorous. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Haven't seen any studies on it in about 2 years, but at that time it was being overdiagnosed by a factor of 4:1. It's called a syndrome for a reason. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I think the first one was "I'm a uniter, not a divider" The Bush administration has put together one of the most effective propoganda machines in history. Amazing performances. I'd say they are the best since, . . . . well, . . . . Clinton. My point is that politicians, thru the normal process of learning from those that came before them, are getting better all the time at fucking people over and convincing them it is for their own good. I have no doubt the next administration, regardless of party, stands a good chance of setting even higher standards. I do love the stuff Letterman does on Bush. Hilarious. I wonder if he (Bush) is capable of forming a complete sentence if it is not printed out in front of him? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Since when do politicians accurately represent the wishes of their constituents? A very good example - the majority of Americans do not want abortion abolished, yet we continue to see attempts to reduce and/or eliminate a woman's right to get one. Politicians say what they need to say to get elected; then immediately set about imposing their personal values on the public. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

A great series, and that was a fun episode. IIRC, the most powerful guns (launching bullets at the highest speed) were not the deepest penetrators. The really fast ones disintegrated at a more shallow depth than the slower ones. So it is form, not speed, that counts? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I think they both want peace; it's just that their terms are mutually exclusive. I'm not intimately familiar with everything OBL has said, but I do not recall that they (he and other Muslim fundamentalist types) want to rule the world. IIRC, they simply want western influence out of their corner of it. They definitely, and correctly, see Israel as an outpost of western power in the middle of their world. They want a return to a Caliphate, where religion rules all and state borders are of trivial importance. The western powers however want secular democracies wherever that can be managed; folks willing to do business the way we do. Monarchies and religious regimes are tolerable as long as they'll do business; i.e. - Saudi Arabia. (It's a bit of an embarassment for our government that the nastiest terrorism elements as well as the biggest chunk of their financing comes from there. But they managed to obfuscate on that little detail and invade Iraq instead). That is the conflict at it's most fundamental level, a secular versus non-secular worldview. The rest is all sub-plots, smoke & mirrors, window dressing, political positioning and manipulation, etc. The single most significant event leading to where we are at today in this dilemma was the dismemberment of the last such entity - The Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire threw in with Germany and the Hapsburgs in WWI. To the victors went the spoils of war, and they eviscerated the Ottoman's; drawing lines in the sand (literally) that nobody wanted, sponsoring a land grab on behalf of the Jews, installing puppet governments across the region, etc. And that is basically where we stand today. (Though a few have gained various levels of political and/or economic independence). It's been almost 100 years and there has been no progress in the situation at all. Then again, in the sands of time, 100 years ain't no big deal. The situation will resolve itself, eventually. Could take another century or two. Almost certain to be some really nasty conflicts along the way. BTW, in the long term view, western convention has held sway for the minority of the years in which it has been at odds with the east. No reason to think our little blip of technological supremacy will last. Given the birth rate alone, they'll overrun anyone opposing them eventually. It would be best to make up before that happens. I mean, what is the alternative? We (both sides)gonna propogate the antagonisms until it ends up with nukes flying (a very likely scenario). It would serve us best to resolve sooner than later - the hand we have now is as good as it is going to get. Get back to running our corner of the world and let them get back to running theirs. Not talking isolationism. We still have needs each other can help with; but the Imperialistic style of spreading influence is over and done. The world has become too connected and too interdependent for Big Stick policy. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

So are you asking if a person would enjoy being prosperous if they are poor? No that's not it. Maybe you are asking if a prosperous person living in Somalia . . . . No, that's not it either. What exactly are you asking in the above post. If you were more like making a statement - just make it. I'm curious where it is going. Anyway, if I'm poor, then I'm poor. If I'm wealthy, then I'm wealthy. The If-you-were-poor hypotheticals (like most hypotheticals) are empty and meaningless. I mean, if my Aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. What's the point? Anyone done the arithmetic? If you took that 6 1/2 trillion and divided it up amongst everybody, you come out to roughly a grand each. Are there people who think that would solve anything long term? OK, being facetious to make a point that removing the disparity of wealth is not the fix, because disparity of wealth is not the problem. Nothing in itself wrong with having lots of money, or no money. The problem is economies not being allowed to mature at a reasonable pace on local and regional levels. Underdevelopment is not a status, it is a process that happens when an agrarian, rural, or otherwise relatively simple economy is put on steriods by outside parties. And everybody is guilty. The outside parties for operating on nothing but short term interest and greed as well as the inside parties that are always a necessary component in pulling it off. Everybody plays a part, but nobody thinks they are to blame. No single raindrop considers itself responsible for the flood. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I avoid flying NWA if at all possible. Seems a bad idea to fly on a carrier whose employee population is so disgruntled. Wife used to work there, and I met quite a few employees over the years, very few of them have an overall positive attitude about NWA. Plus my own personal experiences with them have almost all been bad. Right up there with Dell in the couldn't-provide-much-worse-service-even-if-you-tried category. Tough to avoid them in our locale, but I usually manage to do so. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It's mid-ocean ridges. The trenches are usually (maybe all?) up against a continent or plate border. Fun topic though. As far as skydivers being cold-hearted; I wouldn't think any more than any other group - probably less. I have cooled considerably as the portion of my earnings that I get to spend on what I want to spend it on has sunk to not much more than half. Feels like a rock and a hard spot though. On one hand there are the Repubs who seem to have almost no compassion and have to be fought tooth and nail to help anybody, and on the other a bunch of Dems who want to save everybody from themselves - and plan on hijacking even more of my earnings to do it. As Sylvester would say, with a good spit, "Despicable!" " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

With you there. I grew up on a 215 Falcon. It was a very good first canopy - though due to a combination of it's inability to cut into the wind, my newness as a canopy pilot, and my unwillingness to sit out whenever the winds were over 5 mph; I think I probably had the highest percentage of off-DZ landings than anybody in Baldwin for about 2 or 3 years running. No emergencies, just a lot of alfalfa and wheat field landings. Got to know most of the neighbors. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley