Kennedy

So you're taking an example of inappropriate police action (one could call it abuse), adding a hypothetical complication, defining "threat" in an overly broad sense, replacing the officer with a citizen, and telling us your example should influence the gun rights/gun control debate? Dude, who are you kidding? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Whoa, there, slugger. You know I agree with the original post (two sides, one coin, no cash value), but ar you going to sit there and tell me the left doesn't do thought police? PC-ism isn't a construct of the right, ya know. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Apples and oranges. If you find a defect in the product, something wrong with the gun, then a safety recall and liability lawsuits may be in order. However, there is nothing wrong with the firearm itself. Oh yeah, and let me know when you ban buckets, or reform them somehow, since they contribute to more accidental deaths than firearms each year. And who determines the requirements? Politicians, many of whom have stated confiscation is theri goal? Some faceless bureaucrat, unaffected by the public and immune to the affect of his mistakes? Anyone who pays attention to government realizes it always expands as far as it can (and then often moves the boundary). You are crossing accidents with criminal actions. If you look only to the accidental gun death tally, it is low, compared to many other deadly accidents. If you need to get to work, how about letting everyone ride covered mopeds? It would reduce traffic deaths, and save gas, and all kinds of other good things. So what if you are requiring people not use the best tool for the job, right? I don't know about you, but when defending myself, my family, and my community, I want the best damned tool for the job, and an assortment of appropriate tools to the many possible threats. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So you believe people are so inept that they could not figure out how to shoot an intruder because they haven't shot in ten years? I could put a revolver in front of most people who have never shot, and they could figure it out. Also, do you think shooting once or twice every year grants police officers mystical control and skills with their firearms? Many LEOs don't shoot in ten years except for qualification. Also, by your logic, if they haven't fired in the line of duty in ten years, there's no reason for them to carry, right? Obviously if something requiring deadly force hasn't happened in ten years, it never will. crazy So you advocate confiscation of private property, holding Joe and Jane Citizen to higher standards than police officers, and basing policy of uniformed ideas rather than numbers or intelligence. Wonderful. Then explain why there are so many more defensive gun uses, crimes prevented, and lives saved, than there are gun crimes. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Dropped could mean shattered, and 17 becomes 7 very easily on a keyboard. Justa thought. Either way, you'd think a man who can afford that shotgun could afford trap and skeet lessons. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Umm, that's a lot of !!!!!!!!!!!!! ps - good job witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

They call it a successful round because he put on a show for the gun vote. It sure wasn't successful in terms of busted clays. (it wasn't successful with gun voters, either, but hey, since when does reality affect what a 'journalist' writes?) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

What, do you deny that a simple altercation can be escalated by the other party into a life threatening situation, justifying the use of deadly force? If some putz cuts in line, then shoves me when I call him on it, no big deal. But if he continues to rant and rave, and looks, acts, and talks crazy, then comes at me grabbing a club on the way, I can defend myself, no? If a man is burglarizing my home, does he deserve the benefit of the doubt? Not a fucking chance. He is the one invading my home, my castle, breaking our laws, and yes, he may only be after my dvd player, but he may be after my gun and/or my life. How would I know? Should I ask him and trust his answer? Or should I stop him and hope I don't have to hurt him? Human life is worth protecting, defending, and valuing,even violent predators. However, I don't value their life at the risk of my own. I value my family and then my own far above theirs. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I thought donning the asshat was a reward, you know, "wearing her ass for a hat...." witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

And the entire quote makes him sound like even more of a jackass. What's your point? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

There are so many criminological and sociological untruths and fallacies that I'm not going to spend the time picking them apart. I'm simply going to tell you that you are wrong. Suicides don't count when counting violent crimes (against other people). If you count that, then you should count drugs and drinking in your violent crime total, as they are damaging oneself. Removing guns would not remove the crime, and comparing other countries is invalid in this case. Do you really believe anyone here thinks a man should be shot for cutting in line and then shoving you? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Like John said, there is a big difference between hunting deer her ein the states and hunting red deer (a smaller, different species of animal) in the UK. There's a reason you guys came up with the ghille suits while the Germans perfected optics and we wildcatted cartridges. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Is that the nice way to say scotch? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Well, the first round is still on me, but it's 4am and I have to work the first shift for the first time in a long time tomorrow. Wish me luck, and does anyone have a good cure for the headaches that come after massive caffeine infusions? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

In which case you have invalidated Nac's defense of your position, and should answer Turtle. ps - good choice of fiancees; straight white teeth make things so much nicer. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

All good points, but there's one thing you left out: In both our countries, we tend so far towards socialism that if you package it in nice words, people and politicians will take it at face value, while if you talk about shrinking government or removing services, or allowing business the freedom to operate, we would be laughed out of our respective legislative halls. (I'm talking UK as a whole, and the laws of London, I don't claim to understand the intricacies distinguishing Scottish versus English versus Welsh versus Irish parliamentary issues) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

The GOP hasn't lost the Reagan legacy vote, just Reagan's legacy. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Phree, at least you learned better. I came across this while surfing and generally being an insomniac Telegraph.co.uk article Too long to post, but worth a read. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Nah, most of the bitterness and resentment comes out of not thinking. . witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

There a site button for that, or did you do the math on your own? I'm not so sure about my neighbors, but I know how my state is voting. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Wasn't it you who was saying sons of presidents aren't automatically as powerful or as deserving of respect as their fathers? OK, so this kid (thirty years my senior, whatever) has decided that he hates the Bush administration, and that it can do no right. Big deal. Tell me again why he would be anybody except for his father. ps - esquire is still a rag. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

No, but saying it's bad when it's not can make it bad. I realize anyone who invests thought needs more than promises that the economy is doing well, but you must realize that that means 85% of the population only needs promises. Come on, polling the public for the state of the economy is like polling commercial passengers for the state of private aviation. They can answer your questions, but does that make them right? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

OK, since we all agree Kerry is a fraud in terms of gun rights and hunting, I've got a new question for everyone. If you take a shotgun (by definition a smooth bore firearm), and you put a rifled barrel on it to shoot saboted slugs, is it now a rifle cahmbered in a traditionally shotgun caliber, or is it still a shotgun? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Me neither. Again, the difference being that a LOT of Republicans think GWB is a flawless President. He's not. They won't admit he's made errors in judgement and even worse, HE won't admit he's made errors. That kind of hubris kills. I don't know anyone who thinks he has done everything right. I haven't even heard anyone say that, with the exception of political pundits. However, I do recall talking with people in MD and NoVA who thought Clinton had done nothing wrong, and was being harrassed by the VRWC. At this point, all I know is I'm sick of being told how horrible the economy is. Anymore more pessimism from the left and their wishes might come true. Why is it that under their president, it's a "fluxuation" but under their foe, it's a "recession?" For shit's sake, if you want the economy strong, one big factor is simply telling people who listen that it IS strong. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Your quote (sig) sounds like the caricature of one of my friends, and your avatar looks like one of my favorite TV personalities. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*