ramon

I sure would like to demo one when I get the time. the guy at our DZ that demoed one doesn't even use front risers (he just thinks it's cool to downsize) or pack for himself. I think he gave a poor review to the rest of us. "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Let us know about the openings. friend of mine demoed one and did not like it (disclaimer: he is not a very aggressive pilot) and it was too small for me to try. r "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

yes I am sorry, that time you did show up to take the pictures of someone else instead of vice versa. good job ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I want to jump one too. Josh...... puhleeze........ "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

here you are "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I have to scan it and can't right now but I will later "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

During the 120 way I took a 'spy' picture of you and Hoop waiting in line to get on the plane. r "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Hey water is fun.. "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I think the crowd got sprayed "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Bad light for photo, but good swoop "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I meant the aspect ratio was 2.72/1 for a vengeance. my bad ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I think pilot skill and luck have a lot to do with the results at a swoop meet so I don't think you can say this canopy versus that canopy. Demo everything and keep what is comfortable for your style. known items. Xaos..claims of good openings (ignore broken HMA thread that 135 had some problems ) light riser pressure flatter glide. I have seen and or heard about these canopies colapsing quite a bit but most occurences can be explained away by this or that..but worth noting. velocity...claims of good openings high riser pressure steep glide. notable claim...friend at DZ is loaded on his velocity more than I am on my FX (I flare all the way), he can shut his velocity down in no wind better than I can my FX (regardless of his superior skill he has always claimed it stalls at a lower speed than an FX) VX...claims of crazy to hard openings (I know two people that have tamed theirs) high riser pressure, probably highest aspect ratio cross brace out there, probably thinest airfoil. I know a guy that jumps one at 3.1 and he seems to shut it down pretty well for that high wingloading. Apparently this canopy is capable of much more radical maneuvers close to that ground than an FX (hard 90 to 180 turns in the swoop) FX...claims of random slams (I have tamed mine just with packing technique..but let that slider get away from you..and..) well all are probably capable of a little more than an FX..but...remember pilot skill and luck mean more than what canopy you got. ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I bet he is a blabber mouth in person...ha ha ha it's ok he only had 200 jumps and didn't know anything back then hahahaha "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

but with 30 second canopy ride (assuming all hop n pops on a highly loaded canopy which they probably were not). 1000 jumps is 30000 seconds exposure to UV light. 4 hours is only 14400 seconds so the PA test canopy got plenty of UV light and it can still be cloudy for UV to affect things. A paraglider gets much worse exposure to UV and from what I understand HMA was in use in paragliding in europe. It is also in widespread use in sailing where there is plenty of UV and stress and strain from jibbing (turning the boat and switchig the sails through the pulleys and winches etc) although the strains and stress may not necessarilly be the same as a hard opening....but if a line breaks while your sailing...BFD ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Since you have not jumped a stilleto 120 for 900 jumps the vengeance 120 might seem like a dog except it will have lighter riser pressure and longer recovery arc (with a little bit of a negative recovery). I have first hand experience with this phenomena. The vengeance is the highest aspect ratio canopy PD makes and maybe that is why it seems doggy compared to the same size stilleto. even PD recommends jumping one size smaller Vengeance than stilleto. Heads up for vengeance quirks...because it is airlocked and high spect ratio (1.72 i think), if one side inflates a little before the other it will dive hard during opening. The only linetwists I have ever had on a vengeance (1.7 wingload) where when I jumped a tube (I don't recommend it ). I have always packed my vengeance very carefully (not like stilleto)..make it very even (pull slider out a little do what ever you want with the nose), small rubber bands, 3-4 " bites, and at leat 18" of line left over. If you are slightly sloppy the openings might be more divey, but when I am most careful and fly the harness they are soft and on heading. At a minimum demo a 120 before you buy it, you will be sorry (unless all you want it for is lighter riser pressure) ..read the gear reviews, Chuck Blue will agree with me there. Ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I ain't paying for that...too pissed off the shit little hacked utility that came with the drive wouldn't do it. I found a free on line tool I can't refind the site it is called 'part..somehting. It formated that harddisk just fine. I am done and everything works. thanks ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I have exactly no experience with Nitrons....In my limited experience I seem to see the same types of canopies blowing out cells so I probably incorrectly blame the manufacturer and it never occured to me that it could be body position. In fact the type of canopy I have seen blow up the most was blown up by the same person.(several heat waves). ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

very good point about the big canopy and the aerodynamic limit. I guess I have been lucky with hard openings (triathlon,alpha, vengeance, FX (slight spank..rare now)) From precisions website they say they have 3 types of HMA on their canopies. "Xaos-27 canopies (and other Ground Zero canopies) each contain three different sizes of HMA line including 352, 440, and 946-pound tensile strengths. The braided diameter is smaller than either Spectra or Vectran. " "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

yes that was it. I didn't know about the hole in the slider....that could explain a lot depending on how big it is.. r "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Yes... I hope the guy that owns the canopy sends it to precision for inspection because there are a lot of rumors about the lines and if it was something very explainable it would do a lot to discredit/substantiate the rumors. ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

right on. I'm an imperfect engineer myself

"The jumper had apperently loaded that side more then the other during the opening and that much stress was enough to blow seams out and rip the ZP fabric like it was a wet napkin." Did Precision tell you that? Did an experienced master rigger tell you that, or is that someones opinion at your DZ? I just want that statement to be qualified. If Precision told you that then we should all buy a Cobalt because they test them in every opening orientation loaded up at different speeds and they market that. ramon P.S. one of my canopies is a vengeance with vectran lines, I dump in tracks and all sorts of silly postions..no problem "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Point is they are supposed to be tested at much..much greater weights..it is called "over design". If they say 5 lines snapped because he was close to max suspended weight, I would never buy a canopy from that company...especially a reserve. If they say..oh, there was a bad HMA lot or...dings on the grommet weakened the lines, or the lines were exposed to too much UV and were brittle that is different. VX has a continuous 2.4 wingloading max (9 cell line set). FX has continuous 2.2 wingloading max (7 cell line set). Obviously you know Hoop is like 2.7,Chris miller is like 2.9 and Derek jumps regulalrly at 3.1. We all know Luigi Cani jumped it at 3.somthing and everyone knows Slaton has 'unofficially' jumped the 46 with weights on rumored to be close to 4. something and on a lighter note Big Jessie is loading his xaos 89 at like 2.7 or 2.8..no probs and of course this is a different situation. Xaos wing loading is 2.4 max till the canopy is 108 sized and then the limts go down so obviously they are putting a definite weight cap on a 7 cell continuous line set. I have still refrained from any FUD rumors from Europe ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

I witnessed this...No FUD!!! A jumper on the 124 way Texas state record atempt was borrowing a new XAOS 135 (a big one he was a big boy maybe 250 exit). I saw the most violent spinning mal I have ever seen (actually aout 80 people saw it and were screaming cutaway...the delay in chopping was was due to the fact that the jumper was actually trying to figure out why he was spinning.) Anyway. Once he was on the ground and the exitement and debrief from 124 way was over he looked at the canopy. Results: 4 "A" lines on one side snapped (the middle of the line not the attachment point). One brake line also snapped. No shit... no FUD...There may be more facts and circumstances...but.... peace Ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie

Won't that cut into their buisiness? Or have they already re-located? ramon "wee girls on a skydive road trip on big bikes...... yikes, dykes and bikes kinda thing...... ", David McKelvie