jfields

Good one! Somehow, we'll have to forward that to him.

rig

Don't worry. You'll have plenty of volunteers for the mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

Yup. I've had that happen about 5 times. I wear either glasses or regular contacts most times. But when I jump, I wear disposable contacts, so it is less problem if I lose one, although I never have.

Blond.

Oh, no! Don't get me confused with JTVal. He is the one with the ducks.

Question: You are walking down the street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a little old lady asks you to help her across the street. What do you do? Liberal Answer: Help her across the street. Conservative Answer: BANG! She deserves to die for being so old and weak. Texan's Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click... (sounds of magazine being ejected and fresh magazine installed) Wife: "Sweetheart, looks there is a police officer coming to see what is going on. What do you kids think?" Son: "Mom's right Dad, I see him too..." Dad: "No problem. The NRA lobbied so I could have bullets that will pierce his vest!" BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! Daughter: "Nice group, Daddy! Gee. Sounds charming.

Paul, Exactly. Homer, What he said, one more time, for emphasis. (WHACK!)

Hmm. Is she using AC or battery power? That could have an impact on how long you are trapped in there.

So, when IS Sebazz coming out of the closet? Sorry, couldn't resist!

Sebazz, Once you have a duck, you never leave the house any more. You are too... umm... busy. So can I have your gear?

Erno, Precisely!

Actually, yes. If you look at how many times the intent is simply to rob versus the "truly psycopathic" individuals who have premeditated killing, then it is safer to be allow yourself to be robbed. When you try to draw your weapon, you can force someone into a position of killing you so they won't be hurt themselves, even if that was not their intention. The following are not actual proven statistics, just an illustration: 1 in 20 bad guys want to kill you, reason or not. 1 in 20 bad guys intends to rape or assault 12 in 20 bad guys want to rob you, but will definitely kill if provoked. 5 in 20 bad guys want to rob you, but wouldn't actually kill. 1 in 20 bad guys aren't actually bad, but you mistake them as such. So, out of 20 hostile scenarios, 2 are likely to result in harm no matter what you do. Chance of passive victim being hurt/killed: 2 in 20. Quick-Draw, the gun-owning target, sees the situations as justification to defend with deadly force. 6 bad guys would stop what they were doing without any violence. The other 14 end up in gun fights. If you win half of them, that leaves you dead 7 times in 20. If you are really good, well trained, say you win 2/3 of your fights, that still leaves you dead about 5 times in 20 encounters. Without knowing the details of the situation, I have doubts. There are very few situations with no alternative but the use of firearms. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. You have neglected to look at the possibilities for flight. While not heroic, glorious, or a justification for owning cool weapons, flight works pretty well to keep you alive. Practicing certain actions over and over makes you more likely to repeat them when the situation arises. With skydiving emergency procedures, that is a good thing. When it comes to rehearsing situations where you are drawing and firing your weapon, the same tendency is true. You are likely to perform the same actions, whether fully justified or not. The difference is that instead of saving your life or having an unecessary cutaway, you just shot and probably killed someone, or got yourself killed. History is also filled with cocky wolves scratching lions' balls.

All joking aside, I agree with you. The right to bear arms (mental picture of all the armless bears wandering around) is and was tied to the defense of the country. It has been debated on the forums before, and I'm sure it will again, but the facts remain the same. The privilege of bearing arms is one that the government can take away from individuals. In a world of stealth bombers, nukes, chemical weapons and such, the revolutionary era equality of "citizen soldier" to that of a foriegn invading army is gone. Unless of course we give in to the NRA and let everyone that wants buy all the weapons of mass destruction they want.

Did you have to move Clay out of the way first? Where the hell are you, Clay? We are making fun of you!

We talking pitchforks, or... not?

It is a good thing for you that you are cute, nice and a greenie. Otherwise, you'd get pitchforked for that comment.

And if they call you up, then they'll give you training and the weapon you need. Until then, the supreme court has generally said that owning a weapon is a privilege, not a right.

LOL!

Dave, Come on. Be honest. We disagree on this. That is fine. But not every opinion that isn't in favor of widespread gun ownership is "stupid shit". Take my comment as you will. Even where we differ, we can usually refrain from outright insults of the opposing side. The lapse into generalized name-calling about gun ownership opponents is all I was illustrating.

Touche! I think there is a lot of truth in that, Andy. If you look through all the gun debates we've had in the forum, each one seems to have common occurrences. The first is a gun owner citing the need for self defense. The second is the gun owner referencing the right to own weapons, so they can continue to defend themselves. The right and the safety are both illusions, and the threat is exaggerated. Many Americans feel just like you do. We often get overshadowed by a vocal minority because we aren't putting NRA stickers on our cars and lobbying for the right to be walking arsenals. Other than when gun topics come up on dz.com or a sniper uses a gun from a crappy dealer (who was defended here by gun advocates), I never even think about the issue. I am just as safe without a gun as I would be with one. I just refuse to live in fear, or arm myself in an overcompensation to fear.

My point exactly.

Dave, I'm sorry about whatever personal thing happened to you in relation to abortion. But I don't understand how your stated belief in freedom meshes with a strict pro-life attitude. In the event of a rape, what is a pregnant woman to do? As the victim of a crime, is she to be further punished by being forced to have her rapist's baby? Even with our advanced medical care, childbirth is not 100% safe for the mother. Is it right for a raped woman to face the risk of dying while delivering a baby she doesn't want and didn't intend to have. The "you should have used birth control" arguements certainly don't apply. Pro-choice does not equate to pro-abortion. The choice is the freedom to make what must be a heart-wrenching decision. I don't think it should be taken lightly, but I think most of the women who get abortions have already suffered more than enough. We don't need society berating them further.

Dave, It isn't about ice picks, or buckets, or whatever else people say can be used to kill. We are talking about guns. That is incorrect. With training, someone can lessen, but not eliminate their chance of being a victim. There is a great fallacy circulating, that many people are buying into. It is the premise that in gun/knife/icepick/bucket fights, the good guy always wins. The problem is that it isn't true. Moral validation does not grant divine reflexes and aim. You could buy your gun legally, go to the range, then get needlessly shot and killed drawing your weapon in a confrontation. How is that a victory? Forcing a confrontation to escalate from a robbery to a gun battle only serves to polarize the situation. Than chances that someone will die in the confrontation go up. It may be the attacker, or it may not. It could be the person trying to defend their posessions. I make the personal decision that a few belongings are not as important as my life. So far, I've never been in a situation where the only way to survive was by shooting someone. Neither have you. Chances are that neither of us ever will be, despite the fact that you are preparing for and almost welcoming the situation. Come on, Dave, just drop the pretense of "rights" and safety. Make an irrefutable statement that you just like owning firearms, and we can be done with this debate.