jfields

Yup. Some of us are stubborn as hell.

Without knowing you, I didn't know that. It is so much better than all the others, that they merit basically no consideration in comparison. I think I do. You think you do. We both come up with different conclusions on the issue of personal safety. The responses that best save the lives of my family are very different from those that the military or police instill for combat situations. My primary goal is not to subdue or disarm the opponent. It is to get my family and myself to safety. Sticking around and acting macho isn't what my family needs.

I didn't miss it. I just hadn't gotten to responding.... I clearly said they were illustrative, and not factual. Given that I didn't say the number were accurate, and what an illustration is, did it help to clarify the thought process of determining how drawing a weapon can actually decrease the chances of living through an encounter with a criminal? I agree with you. The inability to differentiate leads one to play the odds for survival, which favor passivity over armed response. I'm sorry that happened to you. Without delving too far into the NRA's actions that increased the odds of that criminal having a gun to point at your head, what did you do? How did you use a handgun to get out of the situation? A gun in the home made occupants three times more likely to be the victims of homicide and five times more likely to be a suicide statistic than occupants of gun-free homes - May Journal of the American Medical Association. Between 1988 and 1997, 6,817 children 5-14 years of age died from firearms. Compared with children 5-14 years of age in other industrialized nations, the firearm-related homicide rate in the U.S. is 17 times higher, the firearm-related suicide rate is 10 times higher, and the unintentional firearm-related death rate is 9 times higher. The present study examined the association between four different measures of firearm availability and the rates of suicide, homicide, and unintentional firearm deaths among children 5-14 years old. The study found that children were more likely to die from suicide, homicide, and unintentional firearm injuries if they lived in states (or regions) with more, rather than fewer, guns. The increased rate of homicide and suicide in states with high gun levels was accounted for by significantly elevated firearm suicide and homicide rates. Overall, children living in the five states with the most guns were 16 times more likely to die from unintentional firearm injury, 7 times more likely to die from firearm suicide, and 3 times more likely to die from firearm homicide than children who lived in the five states with the fewest guns. Miller, M., Azrael, D., & Hemenway, D. Firearm availability and unintentional firearm deaths, suicide, and homicide among 5-14 year olds. Journal of Trauma Injury, Infection, and Critical Care 2002; 52:267-275. Check out this article (PDF format): http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/8/4/262.pdf from the Harvard School of Public Health. Incident Deaths(total) Deaths(Firearms) Romantic triangle 118 81 Brawl due to influence of alcohol 151 67 Brawl due to influence of narcotics 118 79 Argument over money or property 194 129 Other arguments 3,544 2,074 Gangland killings 74 62 Juvenile gang killings 865 735 The premier weapon of choice for murder is the firearm. Source: FBI http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-13.xls Total murder victims Total firearms Hand-guns 13,752 8,719 6,790 Handgun murders almost equal all others combined. Same FBI source. During 1993-1998, an estimated average of 115,000 firearm-related injuries occurred annually. Of these, approximately 30% resulted in death. The lethality rate is substantially higher than all causes of injury combined where

Yes, I do. Your fear of these scenarios is probably the reason that you are preparing for them and constantly training. The alternative to you fearing them is even worse, which is that you look forward to altercations as justifications to use the skills you've developed. Maybe we understand that the best way to save the lives of ourselves and those we love is to use our brains, instead of a gun. And that is your testament to your responsible, safety-conscious approach to defending yourself and those around you? Edited for spelling.

Consider yourself enlightened. Expert on M-16 and the 9mm. My issue weapon was a pistol, not a rifle. Just because people aren't advocating the unrestricted right to own weapons doesn't mean it is from fear of them or a belief that the weapon itself is dangerous. I'm still not saying I know everything about handguns (or rifles). I know very little. But it isn't necessary to know the details you do. It isn't necessary to know much about them to actually buy them, or have a concealed carry permit, and that is part of the problem.

I wouldn't order them mail order for several reasons. The company might be a bogus scam. They might not send you the right thing. There would be little recourse in case of a problem. and... When I need painkillers, I wouldn't to wait for mail order. I'd want them NOW!

Move to Vermont.

The last time I saw one that was correct. "Justin, you are a butthead." Yes, I am.

The bumper sticker should be read: "Bush is a butthead." I wouldn't want someone to critique the lack of a period, when otherwise it is completely accurate.

Jessica, It had better be a joke. Your punctuation sucked.

What the hell are you all thinking? To help his hangover, the man needed another beer.

I don't think so. How many pages of dead people would you like? Sadly, I can probably provide you with the requested number. Pretty easily. With contrary studies, or with example after example of victims killed by people with concealed carry licences. I disagree.

Yes, the existing laws do need to be enforced. But that misses much of the point. It is often thrown around how much above and beyond the training requirements CHL holders go, and how they are resonsible citizens that just want to defend themselves. None of these cases were self defense. I got chastised for asking this in the forums before, but I'll do it again.. What about the innocent people that were wounded or killed? Saying that the offenders should be punished is all well and fine, but it doesn't address the fact that these events all centered around people that a) lost their handgun b) accidently discharged it and hurt someone or c) used their convenient concealed weapon to hurt or kill someone. If these people hadn't been carrying, chances are pretty good that all the victims would be alive and uninjured. We aren't talking about homicidal maniacs that would go and kill with anything available. We are talking about carelessness and crimes of opportunity. Time after time, people demonstrate that they aren't up to the level of responsibility required to carry concealed handguns. I can dig up sites finding just the opposite of yours. Since self-defense has been generally discredited, what justifications remain for the average citizen to carry a concealed handgun?

Fine. Be that way. Rub it in.

Bill, That one works too.

The question is both meaningless and absurd. Let me pose one of equal quality back... Are you: 1) Liberal 2) A gun-toting homicidal psychopath 3) An illiterate Texan byproduct of a corrupt state beholden to oil monopolies If you expect non-sarcastic answers, ask a real question.

I think the program has gaping flaws. If it were as good as advertised, with only good, upstanding, peaceful folks getting them for self defense use, the following incidents would never have occured. "Safer handling of derringers urged," Indianapolis Star, February 15, 2002 and "Man whose handgun went off charged with drug possession," Indianapolis Star, January 30, 2002 "Man held in tavern shooting," Philadelphia Inquirer, November 14, 2001. "Teacher said to have carried pistol into school by mistake," Eastside Journal, March 13, 2001. Oh, good. One from the often-referenced state of Texas... "Packing Heat," ABC News 20/20 Downtown, July 16, 2001. "The guns of Dale Cramm," Daily Herald, August 14, 2000. How many more would you like? So, Concealed Carry licenses work?

I'm 100% with Bill here. I lean to more restrictive measures than he probably does, but even I'm not calling for a complete ban on individual ownership. What drives me crazy is notion that it is more important to defend the right to get (and sell) lots of weapons cheaply, quickly and easily than it is to protect the lives of innocent people. The right to self defense isn't an issue. For example, does a 1 handgun per month limit hinder a person's ability to defend themself? Why should a waiting period for background checks bother anyone that would pass them? Is immediate gratification so important? A student at my wife's elementary school brought in bullets from his dad's gun. The gun could have been next. Is it unreasonable of me to want that gun owner to be more responsible, so people at the school don't get killed by accident? Why were people defending the gun shop that sold weapons to the DC sniper? We went around on that one too. I said I had no problem with them being sued out of existance. If the disreputable gun merchants that don't abide by the laws are forced out of business, we have effectively made it just a little harder for criminals to get guns, without impeding the rights of law-abiding purchasers. Why do many gun advocates defend even the worst of their gun culture associates? The all-or-nothing stance of many gun owners and the NRA is really unhelpful. By fighting every restriction, no matter how sensible, they are limiting their chances to make sensible compromises that would benefit their own long-term situation.

boobies

bondage

Nuns dressing in drag! What's next?

Bytch

whore Damn, you were fast with that double-post.

hypoxic

Honestly, what president doesn't do that their first night in the White House?? When you move into a new house, you have to mark the occasion. If you are the president, go big!