Bolas

You still don't get it, I see. Imagine going to a club. Upon paying a $10 cover charge, you receive two coupons, each good for $5 off a drink. The drinks' regular prices start at $8. Some consider it a penalty that they have to pay $10 towards two drinks just to get in the club. Others consider it a discount on their first two drinks, since they had to pay the $10 cover to get in anyway. Both groups are correct. It doesn't matter whether it's called a penalty or discount. It's the same thing. Just as we can look at the ACA tax as a penalty, we can consider the American Opportunity Credit to establish a penalty for not enrolling in courses at an accredited institution of higher learning. Likewise, the Saver's Credit establishes a tax penalty for not contributing to an IRA. A rose by any other name … This assumes I want to go to the club. It's a flawed premise: Upon paying a $10 cover charge, you receive two coupons, each good for $5 off a drink. You decide not to go to the club and are assessed a $5 fine. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

You still don't get it, I see. So you're fine with paying fines and penalties and getting nothing for it? I'll make you a similar offer I made Bill: I've got a helmet I'll sell you for $50 or you can pay me a $15 fine for not buying it. I take PayPal.

You have $x. If you keep it, you still have $x. x If you spend $x on goods and/or services, you have their value. Even moreso if there is some sort of purchase incentive. X=V If you pay a penalty or fine of $x with it you get nothing for your money. Fines and penalties produce no value to the payer. x=0 Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Exactly. In the eyes of the law, if someone is not convicted of a crime, they should not be punished for that crime. Your implication that it's okay to execute them because they probably got away with something even if they were exonerated of the crime for which they were convicted is absurd. I made no such clarifications of those convicted and executed only. If someone commits a crime multiple times but not charged/convicted but then gets accidentally convicted of a similar or lesser crime, is that technically okay? No. Is it just? This is where we differ. No justice system can ever be perfect, ours definitely leans in the defendants favor, but even then, errors will happen. Unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary, seems to all karmicly balance out.

If they had been convicted of a similar or worse offense, then they would have been sentenced for that offense, as well. Your reasoning isn't logical. You're assuming they were caught or did not get off on a technicality. This is independent of whether they were convicted. It's the difference between committing a crime and actually being convicted of that crime.

I'm not missing the point at all. The justice system isn't about Karma. It's not okay to put someone to death for a murder they didn't commit just because they got away with stealing a candy bar when they were a kid. Your comparison cracks me up.

The only relevant crime is the one for which they were convicted. You're missing the point. It's a karmic balance thing. While there may be a small percentage of people falsely convicted of a crime they didn't commit and plead innocent to, it's likely they have done similar or worse offenses they weren't convicted of or possibly even tried. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Key words here being "crime for which they were convicted." It'd be interesting to see of those that were sentenced to death, what their criminal and trial histories were... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Safe and fun travels wherever you go. While waiting for your passport, you should hit Lost Prairie.

I don't think anyone has suggested "trying to spend ourselves out of debt." Cash for Clunkers, stimulus checks, not ending the tax cuts... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Uh, no. We're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve for that. I meant to say slightly for both. Ran some numbers off of a base of 100, if taxes are extremely low to begin with it does take far more to break even or profit from a tax cut, but with a higher tax rate, a small decrease becomes more easy to compensate with additional growth. It's only possible with additional growth, which a tax cut can stimulate, but there's no way to show a direct correlation either way. As previously stated, our tax rates are already on the wrong side of the peak of the curve for that to happen. Agreed. In the situation we're in now, tax cuts would almost be as stupid as trying to spend ourselves out of debt. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Uh, no. We're on the wrong side of the Laffer curve for that. I meant to say slightly for both. Ran some numbers off of a base of 100, if taxes are extremely low to begin with it does take far more to break even or profit from a tax cut, but with a higher tax rate, a small decrease becomes more easy to compensate with additional growth. It's only possible with additional growth, which a tax cut can stimulate, but there's no way to show a direct correlation either way. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Right now, the country has two economic problems. One is a slow economy caused by low demand. The other is a high deficit and increasing debt. Attempting to address the deficit before addressing the slow economy will only serve to slow the economy further. As you say, the best time to cut spending is when the economy is doing well. That idea went out the window when Reagan was elected and Voodoo replaced Keynes. How different might politics be today if the typical US voter (and politician) possessed basic mathematical literacy (i.e., basic understanding of algebra on the reals, trigonometry, and multivariate calculus)? This isn't all that complex. Cutting taxes some may lead to slightly more tax revenue, but a big tax cut combined with a HUGE increase in government spending is gonna cause the mess we're in now. The Repubs wanted a tax cut but the Dems would only agree if government spending was increased. The more one side demanded, the other side demanded the same. At the time it was viewed as a win by both parties. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

That's like saying that we didn't cut away this slow speed malfunction up high, so we should do it now, at 100 feet. Cutting spending now will only make things worse. This "malfunction" if landed as is is not survivable. Cutting spending is like firing the reserve at that altitude. It could save ya, but could also kill ya. Either way, ya at least tried something.

Right now, the country has two economic problems. One is a slow economy caused by low demand. The other is a high deficit and increasing debt. Attempting to address the deficit before addressing the slow economy will only serve to slow the economy further. As you say, the best time to cut spending is when the economy is doing well. But we didn't do that so we have to cut it now. It's not the best time but better late than never.

When the economy was "good" people and the government were spending like drunken sailors on a weekend pass. Most was fueled by credit. The people ran out of money and the credit sources turned off and are recovering from their hangovers now and spending less and saving more. Government however is still spending away and expanding. This not only angers the people but scares them too, which in turn makes them save even more. Cut spending, cut regulations on business starting with any affirmative action type quotas and consumer confidence will slowly return. The key will be consistency and global regulations, not local ones. We should not suggest that the fix is drunken sailor spending.

You misunderstood. Option 2. You can buy a jump tickets for $25 each or pay me a $5 penalty. You're getting nothing for your $5. It's a penalty for not buying a jump ticket. Obviously if you're poor and don't have $5 you won't be charged. The DZ justifies this as a way to offset the cost of jump tickets and to allow others who couldn't afford it to jump for free. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

You don't see a difference? Option 1. Jump tickets are $25 but if you buy 5, I'll give then to you for $20 a piece, Option 2. You can buy a jump tickets for $25 each or pay me a $5 penalty. Since there's no difference to you between a discount and a penalty, how many of Option 2 can I put you down for? I take Paypal. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

So you want to increase taxes and increase spending? That's not gonna fix things. We have a tax and a spending problem. We need to address the spending problem first as we also have a mindset currently that any additional revenue can be spent versus saved. Hell, when banks started paying back TARP money Congree wanted to spend it. Yes we need to pay the bills, but we need to cut spending so future bills won't be as high.

Let 'em DIE! Fuck yeah!!! I love how suggesting people support themselves becomes let them die. The vast majority of welfare recipients are people who can't support themselves. When you demonize them by calling them lazy and "worthless" as a group - for purely political and ideological reasons - and deny them access to the safety net, that is exactly what you are saying. Social Security covers those that are mentally and or physically disabled and unable to work. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Let 'em DIE! Fuck yeah!!! I love how suggesting people support themselves becomes let them die. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

Another Hippie story. I was not there when it happened but was later that weekend so hope I get it right. Hippie and a bunch of other Georgia people were at Skydive Greene County for a Labor Day Boogie. The story I heard was he walked up to the manifest girl to get on a load and when she asked him his name, he imitated Dave Chappelle and said, "I'm Rick James, bitch!!!" Apparently she hadn't seen the show and slapped him!!! For a while after that, his sig line here was "I'm Rick James bitch, just not in Ohio."

Why would they stop there? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

You profited from evil corporations and the bailouts and tax breaks they got? Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

I paid $hundreds more federal tax last year because I didn't buy energy efficient windows. -(-1) = +1 Don't buy energy efficient stuff or don't buy health insurance... Exactly the same effect on the "Total tax" line (IRS 1040 line 61) There were no tax credits available last year for energy efficient windows so you lost nothing. Do I get a tax credit for having my own health insurance under Obamas plan? -(penalty) = benefit, so yes. You can only make semantic arguments because that's all you have. The effect on the bottom line is the same. Who's bottom line? Not the taxpayer as if they spend $30k on an electric car, and the tax deduction is $3k, they're still out $27k more than someone who chose not to buy a car. This is a DIRECT tax for NOT purchasing something. Not an incentive for purchasing something. Economically for the taxpayer, it's a lose lose situation. They either pay for a product, or pay an additional tax if they don't. The only question will be which will end up being the least expensive route. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.