pajarito

Gotta go. I will respond later. Jay

I’d say Prove it. Jesus did. Talk is cheap.

Except for the fact that Jesus endorsed it, preached from it (he was a Jew), proclaimed it to be an authoritative source, and his prophesy was fulfilled from it. The Old Testament writers claimed to be speaking God's words and not their own over 2600 times.

Negative... Re-read the last part of the verse. He said "these aught ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Or, as my NIV (easier for me to read ) states, "You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." He was chastising them for putting on a show and not really fulfilling their duties. He was accusing them of tithing, as they should, but only to demonstrate to the crowd how holy & righteous they were. Jesus was in fact labeling them as hypocrites.

I disagree with you a bunch but every once in a while, you make a good funny.

I sleep very well... Well, most nights.... Thank you. Added: Man, I wish I was at the WFFC. Instead........................here I am.

He didn’t and neither did I. I never said that they were “all” invalid. I simply said that many of them don’t apply anymore (according to Jesus) or were never established as laws handed down by God. In reference to other Jewish laws of that time, I think that it’s safe to say that we should follow Jesus’ example {(WWJD – What would Jesus do?) based on (WDJD – What did Jesus do?)}. For example, he obeyed the Sabbath (Luke 4:16, Exodus 20:8) described in both the Old and New Testaments. He considered sexual immorality to be a sin (Lev. 18:22). Jesus said if a man even looks upon another woman with lust, he has already committed adultery in his heart. (Matt. 5:32; Matt. 5:19; Matt. 19:9). Tithing is an Old Testament concept (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5) that Jesus also approved of (Matthew 23:23).

I've explained why God's word is within the history of the Jewish people. Maybe my example sucked. Sorry. Anyway, can you quote what you're talking about concerning "the remaining laws of Israel are NOT to be followed?"

That’s part of it, though. As you said, a large portion of the Bible is comprised of history. It illustrates a big learning curve on the part of humanity. It shows examples of people’s failings in the past to follow God and the consequences of such. God’s commandments, expectations and foretelling are incorporated within that. It appears that you’re really trying to simplify the whole concept. Nothing “real” is every really that simple. I never said they were “all different.” I explained earlier the different laws of the Old Testament and why they either still apply or don’t. Anyway, why would the laws of Iran not be exactly the same as those of Sudan? They’re both Islamic Theocracies controlled by leaders who follow Allah. Do their laws coincide exactly with what is illustrated in the Qu’ran? I’ll bet they don’t.

I think the point is to celebrate our defiance in the face of terrorism, our fortitude, our willingness to fight for our way of life and others, and our accomplishments thus far. The glass is either half-empty or half-full Bill. Your comment illustrates why the "left" doesn't have a positive message for the American people.

But you can't just boil it down to that... Here's why... Why believe in Christianity over all other religions? ---Don't all paths lead to God?

From post #76: "The Bible is not only a book of morals. It also gives a long historical account of the Jewish people and the Nation of Israel." It describes their trials, tribulations, mistakes, accomplishments, etc. Because of this, the Bible IS the Word of God. Everything in it, however, is not necessarily "what He wants." Plenty of people did things in the Bible that God did not approve of.

Review: Moral law (e.g. 10 Commandments) – Still in effect Ceremonial law (e.g. Burnt offerings) – Fulfilled in Jesus’ sacrificial death and not binding anymore Civil law (e.g. Stoning adulterers/homosexuals) – Was only the civil law of the Nation of Israel The “minutia of religious law” enforced by the Pharisee weren’t all necessarily God’s laws. They were that of the Nation of Israel, which operated as a Theocracy, and no other. However, Jesus used verses from the Old Testament as an authoritative basis for beliefs and behavior so they all weren’t considered B.S. by him. He used the Hebrew Bible to prove his points. Both Jesus and the Pharisee agreed on its inspiration. They just disagreed on some interpretation of it. Jesus DID NOT say just, "love me and love your neighbor." He said those were the most important. He said that those who would follow Him should obey God’s law. You’re right. There are. Loose interpretation leaves a wide gap open for people to do what they want to do. It allows some people to be “religious” but not have that religion interfere with their own selfish desire. Very convenient... You get all the “feel goodness” without any “real substance.” Is the Bible Alone Sufficient for Spiritual Truth? Since the New Testament writers were biased, can we trust their testimony? Also, their testimony, the way they lived their lives, and the way they all accepted death demonstrates divine inspiration. Therefore, they can be trusted. Peter – crucified Andrew – killed by crucifixion Matthew – killed by sword John – died of natural causes James, son of Alphaeus – killed by crucifixion Philip – killed by crucifixion Simon – killed by crucifixion Thaddaeus – killed by arrows James, brother of Jesus – killed by stoning Thomas – killed by spear thrust Bartholomew – killed by crucifixion James, son of Zebedee – killed by sword Almost all of these guys allowed themselves to be ridiculed, tortured, crucified, and killed because they would not stop teaching and preaching what they “saw and heard.” Then, I agree somewhat. What has Jesus’ “love of everyone” got to do with your sin of “using the Lord’s name in vain?” I don’t think I’ll be here when that happens. You might have to deal with that issue, though.

String theory is better at explaining the varieties of elementary particles and their interactions than the Bible. Not much better though The purpose of the Bible is not to "explain the varieties of elementary particles and their interactions." Explaining things of that nature was never its intent. The comparison makes no sense.

More voters than not seem to think that he is.

I never said that there wasn’t an element of faith. However, it’s not “blind faith.” Given the evidence available, no one has to accept or reject Christianity blindly. I’ve said this before but I think that it is like comparing proof of a criminal case to a civil one. Christianity cannot be “proven” beyond the shadow of a doubt (by design, I think; hence, faith). However, IMO, the preponderance of the evidence points to its validity and reliability. What’s “not” logical about that? In reference to one Testament backing up the other, I’d point you again to the statistical improbability that it could accurately describe (foretell) the events that it does. You’re right in that it can’t be proven completely but it is very compelling and worthy of trust. In reference to your comment of how “the books were hand picked to fit its purpose”; the following describes why some books were added to the cannon and others were not. “ These so called lost books were not included in the Bible for several reasons. They lacked apostolic or prophetic authorship; they did not claim to be the Word of God; they contain unbiblical concepts such as prayer for the dead in 2 Macc. 12:45-46; or have some serious historical inaccuracies. These books were never authoritative, inspired, or authentically written by either the Jewish Prophets or the Christian Apostles.” Are there lost books of the Bible? None of that means that what we currently have incorporated in the Bible can’t be trusted. The Jews were a severely persecuted people in those times. They knew about the prophesy in Isaiah and the Psalms but they focused on his victories and not his crucifixion. They believed someone was coming to defeat their oppressors and set them up as the ruling nation. God had something else totally different in mind that did not fit with their agenda. He can do that. He’s in charge. The Jews believed that the prophesy did not apply to the Messiah, but to the Nation of Israel or some other person. I think their unwillingness to hear and understand due to arrogance and shortsightedness is why they still to this day deny the obvious. It is also described in the Gospels how much understanding would not occur until the advent of the Holy Spirit (e.g. The Great Counselor). Decide for yourself. Isaiah 53 (written ~ 740 – 680 B.C.) “1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand. 11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors.” Obvious? I think so. YES I think God knows exactly what He’s doing, it’s all part of the larger plan, and it’s not just “trial & error.” Your statement (paraphrased), “I mean absolutely no disrespect to your beliefs or the value of your faith” doesn’t jive with your addition above. I’m sure you meant humor but I find it distasteful, disrespectful, and obnoxious.

Still working on a thoughtful reply to your previous post to me yesterday but thought I'd respond to this one b/c it's quick. You left out the first one. First and foremost, "love God." Then, as you put it, "be nice to each other." Check it... If you "love God", then all else falls into place. If you love God, you'll want to please God and do what he requires. And that is... "Love one another" (even your enemies). If you do those two things, even the 10 Commandments falls into place. Selfish, human ”pride” has to take a backseat.

I have a class and a test tonight so I can't respond right now. But I will.

"If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously." Deut. 18:22 False Prophecies of the Jehovah's Witnesses

There’s more to it than what I mentioned. Prophesy foretold that Jesus had to come from a very specific bloodline. It also mentions location of birth and the time of his coming. There are actually at least 109 distinct prophesies concerning the criteria for the Messiah. The odds of just 20 of these prophesy being fulfilled in one man is more than I can fathom. Is Jesus the Messiah? Prophesy fulfilled by Jesus In addition to that, however, there’s the eyewitness testimony of performed miracles: Miracles performed by Jesus - Changed water into wine (John 2:6 – 10) - Cast out demons (Matt. 8:28 – 32; 15:22 – 28) - Healed lepers (Matt. 8: 3; Luke 17:14) - Healed diseases (Matt. 4:23, 24; Luke 6:17 – 19) - Healed the paralytic (Mark 2:3 – 12) - Raised the dead (Matt. 9:25; John 11:43 – 44) - Restored sight to the blind (Matt. 9:27 – 30; John 9:1 – 7) - Restored hearing & speech to the mute (Mark 7:32 – 35) - Feed the multitude (Matt. 14:15 – 21; Matt. 15:32 – 38) - Walked on water (Matt. 8:26 – 27) - Calmed a storm with a command (Matt. 8:22 – 27; Mark 4:39) - Rose from the dead (Luke 24:39; John 20:27) - Appeared to disciples after resurrection (John 20:19) The last one is the kicker. Without the resurrection, there is no Christianity and no reason why anyone should believe or put trust in such. In addition to fitting all the criteria (I challenge you to find one he did not), he proved who HE SAID he was by defeating death. There may be other ancient “stories” depicting similar occurrences but they don’t have the same kinds of evidence to support them. Many cults do this very thing (e.g. Jehovah’s Witnesses & Mormons). You’re absolutely correct in saying that your prophesy doesn’t mean a damn thing unless it can be shown to have come into fulfillment. The “failed” prophesy of the Watchtower Organization is a huge example of why it is not to be trusted and is not “of God.”

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV.

Sure, but what’s their real underlying motivation? Is it to please God or is it to win whatever eternal reward is supposedly waiting for them when they die? If their motive is the latter, then selfishness comes into play even if what they desire is spiritual in nature. However, no one can answer that question for certain. That’s between them & God. Just a thought.

Ok… Let’s take your example. Assuming that there is no exact word for “homosexual” as the website claims, it is explained in detail so there is no confusion. For example: Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:24 – 27 Like I said before, there are errors in translation. That is inevitable. However, none affect the fundamentals of Christianity and certainly not what you mentioned.