pajarito

I agree.

I'm not Catholic Bill...but that's beside the point. The wrongness of homosexuality with reference to the Bible is very clear and has been around for a lot longer than 50 years. The act of a Priest openly living a homosexual lifestyle is as wrong as someone in a church leadership role actively living an adulterous heterosexual lifestyle (assuming that Priests could marry and have a monogomous relationship; which I know they're not supposed to; just making a comparison). They're both sinful and a very poor example of someone trying to live a Godly life. Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them." 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals1, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Ok... Let's say it has nothing to do with preserving your own gene pool. Say you're walking down the road and see an armed robbery in progress. Shots ring out. An old lady (or old man; or young child) is about to walk in the line of fire. You put yourself in danger in order to get her out of the way. Self-preservation would tell you to just stay out of the way. You don't "want" to be in that situation. However, something else tells you that you ought to help that person. You put your personal safety aside and do what you might not really want to do. Where does that come from? Self sacrifice for other than "herd instinct" reasons.

Again, I agree that a non-religious person can be very moral. I’m not trying to say one must be religious in order to be moral. I think that a sense of right and wrong is imprinted on our hearts by our creator whether we believe in that creator or not. I’m speaking specifically to the atheists and trying to tie morality in with the existence of God. I read some C.S. Lewis stuff that I thought was interesting in this regard. He was speaking in reference to what he called the “herd instinct.” I would also call that morality that we’ve taken from our parents who took it from their parents who took it from their parents and so on and so forth. That our morality is just something that developed in the course of evolution in order to better suit the survivability of the whole. I agree with some of that but not all. Some feelings of morality that we might experience fall into that category of what we must do to function and relate with one another. However, there are some which do not fit into that category and it would seem they must come from something completely different. Here’s what C.S. Lewis said: Your instinct for self-preservation would be the stronger of the two instincts. Your conscience might tell you, however, to pick the weaker of the two and do the right thing. That doesn’t seem consistent with respect to a completely natural theory of our existence. What do you think?

I have more thoughts on this but it will have to wait till tomorrow. My day started at 4:30am and I'm beat. Again, none of that was meant as a slam. See you tomorrow.

I didn't mean anything I've typed so far to be a slam. I promise. I'm really just talking about the existence of God.

Ok... Where did they get it...their parents...I know.... So on and so forth. Where did it originate? Added: I saw your post. You & 1010 said the same thing.

Herd instinct?

That's not my point at all. I'm not saying that people without faith can't be moral. I know plenty who are. I'm just asking where they think that sense of morality originated?

Whoops! Sorry about that. Redirect to newsstand.

That may be true. However, where do you think your sense of morality comes from?

The existence of God isn't just described in the Bible. It is also demonstrated by everything around us (creation) and is imprinted on your conscience. You "choose" to believe in yourself and that everything happened by chance. I "choose" to believe otherwise. Gotta go... Be back later.

If God does exist, he created time and everything else concerning the environment we live in. If he created it, don't you think that he'd also be able to control it? To put your mind above that of God is intellectual arrogance at its highest.

Yes........you've researched them for yourself? or... Yes........you agree with your friends that they are? Just saying....you aught to be sure.

Why is that?

I'd study for myself, if I were you, each of these supposed contradictions to see if they really are.

Idolotry can take most any form. One of your big ones is obviously physics. It might be skydiving. It might be money, power, etc. Anything put before God.

I believe the literal Bible and I don’t do what you stated above. The Bible isn’t a science book. It is not meant to explain quantum physics.

My point exactly! Any religion worth its weight must have credible evidence to back it up. That’s one big difference between Christianity and other religions. That’s not to say there isn’t an element of faith. There is. But it’s not “blind faith.” At least you’re more honest than many. However, it only takes one once. You are absolutely correct in that you’ve been “doomed since then.” (Correction: Since the age of accountability) By your own admission, you’re a thief (“Thou shalt not steal.”). I’m sure you & I are both guilty of breaking just about all of them. If judged by God’s standard, you & I are guilty and, without salvation by grace through faith, will spend eternity in hell. Most people do think that and are very willing to tell you. It’s not realistic, though. Not when you admit to yourself that you fall short. It’s dishonest and a lie (Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor e.g. “lie”). Whoops…. That’s two.

It's going to be very disturbing indeed when you eventually have to stand and be judged in front of your creator and all you have to hold up in your defense in your physics book.

You know... I've been posting on dz.com since April 10, 2003 and I have yet to start my own religious thread. Tell you the truth. I think I've only "started" two total. Many of these threads start out very different. Funny thing is, many times, there is always a religious implication and the discussion diverts. I didn't start this one. It was started to poke fun at Christianity or religion in general by a non-religious person. Please don't blame all this on me. This stuff gets rolling all by itself. I just jump in the mix.

Yes, but what evidence did they have that what they believed was true? Do they match up (even come close) to the ultimate demonstration of truth found in the New Testament?

QuoteSorry but I believe that the Bible is a work of fiction and that any arguments based on it hold the same amount of weight as fairy tales.Quote Based on what?

Evidence for authenticity, reliability, historical accuracy, etc. come into play here as to which stories are credible and which ones are not. I believe, if studied, the evidence for the Bible far surpases the others. You didn't answer my question, though. If it is true, do you think you've kept the standard of the 10 Commandments? Do you think you're a good person?