pajarito

I'm an A-spaghetti-monsterist.

I certainly do not have the market cornered on goodness. I failed my test below miserably. I don't want your money and I'm not trying to recruit for some denomination. I'm just genuinely concerned about the fate of others. Assume a bridge is out up ahead on the road you're traveling on. There is a car up ahead with a person standing on the side of the road waving his hands at you trying to get you to stop. Is that person in the wrong for doing so? Assume that hell really does exist. I know you don't believe that but just assume for a minute. If another person knew that it did exist, wouldn't you want to be warned? Just trying to get you to understand the motive.

QuoteThere is no contextual understanding of anything he quoted. I know you know and I'm just stating for the record. One should never just read one verse and assume meaning. The verses before and after and really the entire chapter should be read for proper discernment of meaning. That really goes with anything read. It is imperitive that we try and understand what the writer intended to convey. Otherwise, we could make most any writer say just about anything we wanted them to mean. That's dangerous. Again, that's not directed at you.

If you're not a Christian now, you were never really a "born again" Christian then.

A "religion" did not make that claim. Jesus Christ did. All other religions you mentioned are "works righteous" religions in that you must follow their guidelines and that you must "earn" your way to salvation through doing so. There is nothing you can "do" to save yourself. You are guilty and are going to stand judgement. Also, you are correct in that many have misused Christianity. They've used God's word out of context and changed it for their own selfish purposes. The life and teachings of Jesus still stand, though.

I have more respect for you than for someone who does not or will not make a choice. I hope it works out for you.

You come across as very angry. Was there a "top dog of the religious fraud" in particular who caused you to be this way?

I really like that sig line!

Many modern evangelistic movements push this notion but that is NOT the purpose of the Christian message. It is not to “fill a God sized hole in your heart.” It is NOT to make your life easier or more enjoyable. It will NOT necessarily increase your happiness with your life. Happiness, contentment, fulfillment, etc. are rightful attributes of the “born again” Christian, however, it is not because of what occurs or does not occur in this life to suite our purposes. It is because of the promise to come. The Apostle Paul was a Roman citizen and a murderer of Christians. He had everything going for him. He then was converted and became a Christian. From that point on, he put his own life in danger and made himself a target. For the rest of his life, he endured hardship, persecution, was imprisoned, and eventually beheaded. He slept like a baby before his execution because he KNEW his reward for suffering for the cause of Christ. I completely agree that the analogy you described above makes absolutely no sense to the non-Christian. Let’s say you make a good living, have lots put away in retirement, own a Harley that you pull around on a trailer behind your big expensive truck, are good looking, famous, and have a date with a different girl almost every night. Why in the world would it make sense for someone to tell you that you need Jesus in order to complete your life? You don’t need Jesus to fill a hole in your heart. You need Jesus to be your representative before the completely holy and just judge who you will face on Judgment Day. You and I both are lawbreakers and are fully guilty of our own choice of breaking God’s moral law of righteousness. You need Jesus in order to save yourself from the wrath to come. It’s coming.

If that were true and valid why not make our civil law on that basis? Someone thought about committing a crime, so why dont we arrest them and have a thought police? Backs up what ive always thought; religion is just fascism , the blind obedience to authority - real or imagined. It’s because we aren’t capable of knowing the thought life of an individual. God can and does. We will be judged by every though and deed (private or not) during this lifetime. It’s like you’ve got a mechanism hanging on your ear which records everything you’ve ever thought of (everything) during your lifetime. That recording will be presented as evidence when you stand before God. It is impossible for us to know the mind of God. His understanding and sovereignty is so great that he knows how things will unfold. He knows our nature perfectly and can predict our actions or thoughts. On the other hand, he created us with the free will to choose or reject life which is in Him. We are able to discern between right and wrong and make a decision. Both free will and predestination can be shown to exist equally in scripture. Some call this a paradox because we can’t understand how they work together and that they appear to be mutually exclusive. They obviously exist together. We just don’t understand how. In reference to prophesy, God does allow and use evil to occur for his purpose (e.g. Christ’s crucifixion).

What a jackass!

I wish he'd JUST STOP SCREAMING at me. I can't take it anymore.

Shouldn't have directed that at you. Just putting it out there. I guess mainly for the hairy one.

How do you know that Plato ever really existed? I believe he did, of course, but how do you know?

It tells us what we aught to do. It does not force you to do it. You can choose to do the right thing or not.

Didn't he only forbade federal funding for "embryonic" stem cell research on all but 61 pre-existing stem cell lines in Aug 2001? That's not a ban on all stem cell research. I could be wrong and I don't know much about it but doesn't the Federal Government still fund stem cell research? Just not that which requires the destruction of embyos.

Don't know much about cats, do you? I own 3.

It’s all about motive. You don’t have to perform the act to be guilty. You’ve thought about it. You have the ability to do it. Jesus said, "You have heard it said by them of old, Thou shalt not commit adultery, but I say unto you, that whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her, has committed adultery already with her in his heart." That’s not speaking about within the confines of marriage. He sees your thought life and the quality of your soul. He sees the depth of your goodness which is to say the lack thereof. Desiring something that belongs to someone else is called coveting and is wrong. Desiring to have one like that other person when it is within your means to achieve it is not. Also, desiring that something above all else would be considered idolatry. I don’t believe there is any commandment against the act of watching a movie. The movie content may add some problems, though. Free will in order to have relationship. A robot would not make a very meaningful companion.

I agree and that is what I was talking about. Regardless of whether you're religious or not, however, it should compel one to seek answers to the big questions. If I am honest with a self-examination of my own nature, I am forced to admit that I've lied, stolen, committed adultery (in my mind), been disobedient to my parents, hated others, to name a few. I personally base that on a standard greater than myself. I'm forced to admit to myself that my nature is not good. That doesn't mean that I don't do things which I would consider good "by my standards" or by what your standard of goodness might be. It means that, at its root, my nature is one of selfishness. That indicates to me that something is wrong. Even without being religious, one should realize there are big problems with the equation of our being. Added:The problem comes in when we consider the idea of absolute right and wrong. If it exists, can some of one exist in or with the other? The Bible makes it clear that it cannot and that justice demands payment for breaking this absolute morality. Given the enormity of what we're talking about with regard to God and the infinite gulf between good and evil, the penalty is death and the separation is complete. But that is just putting it into a term we can understand. The reality is that it is incomprehensibly worse. I think it's something very important for all of us to consider given that we are all going to die.

I agree. That is what differentiates us from the animals. We are self-aware and know right from wrong. When we sin, we do it with knowledge that it is wrong. It's called our conscience (with-knowledge).

We were created in His image/likeness. If a perfect painter painted a painting, would the painting that he painted have to be perfect like the painter who painted it? ...that was fun. I don't think so. We have free will to choose. That's how it is possible to have a relationship with something. It has to have the choice to not want a relationship with you for there to be any real meaning.

I agree and that is what I was talking about. Regardless of whether you're religious or not, however, it should compel one to seek answers to the big questions. If I am honest with a self-examination of my own nature, I am forced to admit that I've lied, stolen, committed adultery (in my mind), been disobedient to my parents, hated others, to name a few. I personally base that on a standard greater than myself. I'm forced to admit to myself that my nature is not good. That doesn't mean that I don't do things which I would consider good "by my standards" or by what your standard of goodness might be. It means that, at its root, my nature is one of selfishness. That indicates to me that something is wrong. Even without being religious, one should realize there are big problems with the equation of our being.

It doenst matter how many time you say deep down, you are wrong in that belief. How can you categorically say that I'm wrong? You would have to possess all knowledge to make such a statement. As would any atheist.