pajarito

I agree. That wasn't my intent.

And that is your opinion. I'm sorry if mine offends you but that won't stop me from expressing it.

You'll just have to ban me if you're not going to allow me to post what I want to within the forum rules. If that's the case then so be it... Added: By the way, It wasn't my intent to pass that along as if it was my own. I don't do that. If you don't like it, just say you don't like it. That's your choice. I don't care either way. Added: Also, the 2 links in my sig line point to everything available on livingwaters.com including the book where that came from.

Where they hang out or how they get near us is not what I was talking about.

The Bible isn't a science book. That's not its purpose. However, scientific ideas are present in the Bible: Science And The Bible The Bible and Earth's Free-float in Space The Bible spoke of the earth's free float in space (1500 B.C.): "He . . . hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7). The Scriptures Speak of an Invisible Structure Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of things that we cannot see, invisible atoms. In Hebrews 11:3, written 2,000 years ago, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." The Bible Reveals that the Earth is Round The Scriptures tell us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word chuwg, which is also translated "circuit" or "compass" (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched, not something that is flat or square. The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 B.C. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested, in his book On the Heavens, that the earth might be a sphere. It was another 2,000 years later (at a time when science believed that the earth was flat) that the Scriptures inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world. The Bible and the Science of Oceanography Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. He noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalm 8:8 (written 2,800 years ago) and said, "If God said there are paths in the sea, I am going to find them." Maury then took God at His word and went looking for these paths, and we are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography remains a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities. The Bible and Radio Waves God asked Job a very strange question in 1500 B.C. He asked, "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35). This appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that all electromagnetic radiation, from radio waves to x-rays, travels at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. The fact that light could be sent and then manifest itself in speech wasn't discovered by science until 1864 (3,300 years later), when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia). The Bible and Entropy Three different places in the Bible (Isaiah 51:6; Psalm 102:25,26; and Hebrews 1:11) indicate that the earth is wearing out. This is what the Second Law of Thermodynamics (the Law of Increasing Entropy) states: that in all physical processes, every ordered system over time tends to become more disordered. Everything is running down and wearing out as energy is becoming less and less available for use. That means the universe will eventually "wear out" to the extent that (theoretically speaking) there will be a "heat death" and therefore no more energy available for use. This wasn't discovered by science until recently, but the Bible states it in concise terms. The Bible and the Water Cycle The Scriptures inform us, "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, there they return again" (Ecclesiastes 1:7). This statement alone may not seem profound. But, when considered with other biblical passages, it becomes all the more remarkable. For example, the Mississippi River dumps approximately 518 billion gallons of water every 24 hours into the Gulf of Mexico. Where does all that water go? And that's just one of thousands of rivers. The answer lies in the hydrologic cycle, so well brought out in the Bible. Ecclesiastes 11:3 states that "if the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth." Look at the Bible�s concise words in Amos 9:6: "He . . . calls for the waters of the sea, and pours them out upon the face of the earth." The idea of a complete water cycle was not fully understood by science until the seventeenth century. However, more than two thousand years prior to the discoveries of Pierre Perrault, Edme Mariotte, Edmund Halley, and others, the Scriptures clearly spoke of a water cycle. The Bible and the First Law of Thermodynamics The Scriptures say, "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them" (Genesis 2:1). The original Hebrew uses the past definite tense for the verb "finished," indicating an action completed in the past, never again to occur. The creation was "finished", once and for all. That is exactly what the First Law of Thermodynamics says. This law (often referred to as the Law of the Conservation of Energy and/or Mass) states that neither matter nor energy can be either created or destroyed. It was because of this Law that Sir Fred Hoyle�s "Steady-State" (or "Continuous Creation") Theory was discarded. Hoyle stated that at points in the universe called "irtrons," matter (or energy) was constantly being created. But, the First Law states just the opposite. Indeed, there is no "creation" ongoing today. It is "finished" exactly as the Bible states. The Bible and Ship Dimensions In Genesis 6, God gave Noah the dimensions of the 1.5 million cubic foot ark he was to build. In 1609 at Hoorn in Holland, a ship was built after that same pattern (30:5:3), revolutionizing ship-building. By 1900 every large ship on the high seas was inclined toward the proportions of the ark (verified by "Lloyd's Register of Shipping" in the World Almanac). The Bible and Meteorological Laws The Scriptures describe a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists discovered them: "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecclesiastes 1:6). We now know that air around the earth turns in huge circles, clockwise in one hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the other. The Bible and Science "In antiquity and in what is called the Dark Ages, men did not know what they now know about humanity and the cosmos. They did not know the lock but they possessed they key, which is God. Now many have excellent descriptions of the lock, but they have lost the key. The proper solution is union between religion and science. We should be owners of the lock and the key. The fact is that as science advances, it discovers what was said thousands of years ago in the Bible." Richard Wurmbrand, Proofs of God's Existence

The Law of Conservation of Matter: Matter is not created or destroyed but only changes form.

I think the secular scientific community still does. Otherwise, where did their matter originate? I understand what I was taught. I just don't buy that it just appeared from nothing and became everything.

Without regarding what was written in your quote, I doubt that person would refer to themselves as a Christian. I'll bet they would refer to themselves as a Catholic. Not meant to be a hit on Catholics out there but what they say or believe isn't always in line with Scripture. It is sometimes only in line with Catholic tradition which they esteem at the same level as scripture (correct me if I'm wrong; I can take it ). Catholics definitely DO NOT represent the standard or the whole of believers.

Where did the seed come from? The flower before it. So on and so forth until where did matter come from in the first place? Nothing? Is that logical? Even the smallest, simplest thing you can think of is incredibly complex. I hope so since you call yourself a Christian. Something that complicated developing by random chance doesn't seem to work.

It's bad logic to assume something came from nothing, exploded, and became everything. Your rebellion against it does not negate its existence. Do you possess absolute knowledge of everything? If not, then you should call yourself agnostic.

I understand NDT and believe God is responsible for what we see today.

The Creation proves the existence of God. For a painting to exist there must have been a painter. For a building to exist there must have been a builder. Irreducibly complex mechanisms in the natural world demonstrate creation and an intelligent source of required information. Your conscience also bears witness to the existence of God. He has taken the time to place the knowledge of right and wrong on your heart. Whenever you sin against God, you do it with knowledge (conscience) that it is wrong. Accountability comes with understanding. I wouldn't.

If you jump out of an airplane and then just decide that you no longer believe in gravity, you'll still die regardless.

I think you should dress in a way that is respectful. For some, that's a suit. For others, it may just be slacks and a knit shirt. However, it's more important to get there and be obedient to God in worship regardless of what you're wearing. Ultimately, God cares about your heart and not what you’re wearing. It shouldn’t matter what others think about you in that regard. You shouldn’t be there to impress them.

Why should you have to buy 3 sets of cards? If someone told me Happy Hanukkah, I would not be offended just because I'm Christian. Why would I? Why should they be offended if I tell them Merry Christmas even though they might be Muslim or whatever? Why would it be offensive for you (not saying you're a Christian) to tell your friends Merry Christmas if they aren't Christian? I just don't get it.

Don't know. I'm sure it will be headline news, though.

I was thinking the same thing.

By the way, my point was that, if you continue in a pattern of sin (e.g. plan to), there is real question whether you were ever born again in the first place. If you aren't growing in Christ and continue to "backslide" over and over again concerning the same thing, return and call on the Lord over and over again, then maybe there's a deep rooted problem. Maybe you didn't "slide forward" in the first place. In the end, some will cry Lord, Lord, and he will say depart from me you worker of iniquity. Paul says to examine yourself to see if you're in the faith. He says to make your election sure.

I was talking about the unrepentant sinner. Sorry about the confusion.

Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength, mind and your neighbor as yourself. Pray. Read the Bible and follow its instruction. Grow in your faith. You should have concern for the eternal destiny of others. Jesus said, to go and make disciples of the world. Spread the good news. If you realize that they’ll suffer eternal damnation if they were to die in their sins, you should tell them. If it doesn’t concern you, you should worry about your own salvation. You might need to examine yourself and make sure you’re in the faith. Because she should love him and visa versa as Jesus loved both of them. God loved the world so much that he gave his only son to be the sacrificial payment for all sinners. He didn’t abandon them because they were. Just the opposite. That’s love. It’s all in the Book.

Yes. They’re not righteous and neither am I. Neither are you. That’s the point. If it instills some fear in you at this point, that’s good. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 9:10). If you would sincerely examine yourself and listen to your conscience, you’d realize that you fall short of God’s moral law and have broken it countless times. He sees every thought and deed all of which will be judged when you die.

I don't know what you're talking about. Pretty much the whole book of Romans illustrates what I'm talking about here. Nothing I've said so far is "work righteous." Salvation IS a free gift and you can do absolutely nothing to earn it. However, without awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance. Without repentance, there will be no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation. Those who aren't born again are under the Law of God. The law shows them that their sin is exceedingly sinful in the eyes of God and leads them to the cross. That is its purpose. Once born again, they are no longer bound by the law and are saved from having to pay the penalty for their lawlessness.

I’m not really sure what you’re talking about with regard to a “trial period” but “it’s appointed for man once to die, then the judgment.” Better make haste. Make the best out of whatever time you’ve got. If there is true conversion (born again), there will be a deep concern for those who aren’t. That’s because I no longer simply believe, I know what they will face when they die. The same thing I will face. Righteous judgment. I’m not judging you by asking if you’ve lied or stolen, etc. I’m a liar and a thief at heart also. Yes. True conversion is a radical change. You will become a new creature in Christ. He will give you new desires and new direction. That doesn’t mean you don’t sin anymore. You just don’t wallow in it and you don’t desire to. It’s the difference between floating down the river of sin or swimming against the current. You cannot sin, ask for forgiveness (confession or whatever), continue in a pattern of sin, and expect to be truly saved. That is a sign of a false convert. They are commanded to do so. "Have you no wish for others to be saved? Then you are not saved yourself. Be sure of that." He continued, "The saving of souls, if a man has once gained love to perishing sinners and his blessed Master, will be an all-absorbing passion to him. It will so carry him away, that he will almost forget himself in the saving of others. He will be like the brave fireman, who cares not for the scorch or the heat, so that he may rescue the poor creature on whom true humanity has set its heart. If sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies. And if they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees, imploring them to stay. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go there unwarned and unprayed for." –Charles Spurgeon

No.