mikkey

The problem the guys will have is "perception", i.e. delays = bugs = problems/reliability with the product in the future? L&B must be "relieved" - the neptune has the potential to dent their dominance in the market. But if you don't land in ponds (get wet) and have a choice between a pro track with a solid reputation and the customer service of L&B and the Neptune with bugs and huge delays, what do you choose? These type of problems during product introduction can be very damaging the reputation of a product. I hope they get themselves sorted. More competition is good for skydivers = lower prices & better products. Anybody knows if/when the Neptune will be sold outside the US? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Hmmm, Meatbomber, were you the pilot? If so can you confirm more details and also tell us why Felix has not published any details that proof this jump (especially no video)? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The contraption in the picture is actually not the one he came down with at the channel. If you see the pics, the wing is much smaller and AFAIK the were no "tips either. Felix has being doing a lot of "snow job" on this one. I actually believe he did not cross the channel - one big publicity "stunt" . --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

HH must be a secret agent or something..... Let me guess Austin Powers? Yeahh, baby... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Takes at least 5 weeks to get down here to me in OZ. Just received the July edition a few days ago And I even pay extra to get "airmail" delivery.. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

But people with knowledge of aerodynamics could maybe prove it was impossible (?). We know what the wing looks like. We can take the picture of Felix under canopy and measure (if we know his height) the real span. Somebody must be able to say if this is aerodynamically possible or not - based on the "facts" provide by Felix. I have this nagging feeling that it is impossible to get that distance out of the altitude available and the time in "fall" with the "lift" and glide ratio this wing can provide. Some engineer should be able to do a computer model? They can calculate how large a wing of a plane has to be... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No need to be an ass about this - even if you do not agree. There IS a school of thought that chest rings are not ideal for free flying. I've got that from more then one source and it includes a rig manufacturer. No need to be so dismissive and using the bombastic 99% statements if you want a decent discusion or dialogue... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Is Felix too good to be true? I have visited his web site and collected the following “facts” regarding the channel crossing: Exit was at 10,000 Meter = 32800 Feet, deployment at 4000 Feet. Temperature at altitude was minus 35 Celsius = - 31 F Top speed was 360 Km/h = 225 MPH Distance was 33 KM = 20.5 Miles “Free fall” time 6 minutes 22 seconds Span of his wing 1.8 Meters = 6 feet Now lets play a little with these “facts” and see if this is too good to be true…. 1) Look at the pictures taken at his landing and before exit. Felix has a thin jumpsuit on and a partially naked neck. I found the formula for wind chill temperature on the NWS web site. According to the formula at –31 F and 225 MPH speed, the wind chill temperature is – 100 F, which his naked skin at his neck would be exposed to. I have known Special Forces soldiers who did do high altitude jumps and they always made sure that every inch of skin was covered! If not they would get real bad “burns” on the skin. So how did you avoid this Felix? 2) Forward speed: In order to go 20.5 Miles in 6 minutes and 22 seconds Felix’ FORWARD speed had to be around 200 MPH in AVERAGE. Based on distance, exit altitude and deployment altitude he had to cover 3.73 feet forward for every foot he descended… His average fall rate based on the data was 54 MPH. And all this with a small carbon wing…???? Which by the way does not look to be 1.8 Meter in span. Look at the picture on his web site at take off. AFAIK Felix is not very tall (not 6 feet) look at the wing, it has a smaller span then his height… it looks more like a 1.5 M ~ 5 ft span. I do not know much about aerodynamics but this sounds to me as Felix just broke a few laws of physics? Are there any engineers out there, who can comment? How does this compare to a birdman suit (forward speed and glide ratio)? 3) A few “minor” points: a) Why was this not filmed by a plane from exit to deployment? b) How did Felix “flare” from 200 + MPH forward speed to deploy the canopy? c) Was it not just a little too convenient that is was so early in the morning and with cloud cover so no one saw anything from the ground???? My bullshit indicator is going crazy here. This was a huge media event all over the World. Was this really one of the greatest “stunts” or was this one of the greatest “illusions”? Is there any smart journalist out there with some resources who can dig a little deeper? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, maybe just an informal chat with a guy who produces rigs down here, i.e. he recommended not using chest rings if freeflying is your thing. You can take that any way you like, the guy seemed to know what he was talking about. Please note the qualifying language I was using "could increase risk" --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Agree, I have also a Talon from PA with chest rings. I am a fat bastard and for me its perfect and makes the whole thing sit perfect, also no problems with the risers etc. So it probably depends on both body build, personal preference and what type of jumps you do. If you do mostly RW, I recommend rings, if you do mostly freefly then don't use them. Reason being 1) Rings make it easier / more comfy to "move" your upper body which is good in RW 2) But rings could increase risk of rig coming off your shoulders in freefly at high speed. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Gosh, this is a depressing thread . Yes I seen a few people die - latest was a double fatality at Easter at Nagambie (canopy wrap). Also lost a few friends/people I knew - without being present. I think the experience makes you more safety minded and more favorable towards safety regulations (right Ron? ). I get especially upset when people die under perfectly good canopies. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

A couple of thoughts: 1) Great job Billvon, especially impressed that you kept an eye on the altitude, ensuring that you won't end up a dead hero. 2) I am surprised she did not get grounded immediately until further assessment. 3) Cypres is a good thing! Here in Australia it is mandatory until E license (which is maybe a little harsh). But I think Cypres should be mandatory until you are reasonable experienced and there is less chance of a brain lock caused by nervousness/stress (I assume this was the case here) --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

AFAIK - Slight misunderstanding here. The basic concept of the PC type canopy - including the crown lines to the apex to create "pressure" etc/ - was invented by the French. The PC category was called "Lemoigne" type canopy (assume after the guy who invented it (?)) So the person you are talking about probably bought home one of the original Lemoigne - probably an early Papillion. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Why do you think he looks so "tight" in the pics. Probably thinking "don';t get excited, don't get excited" --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Duhh...Really? We are discussing emergency procedures IF shit hits the fan. No offense intended but you are stating the bleeding obvious and being somewhat off topic. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You are absolutely right. Horse shoe and PC in tow are probably the 2 mals I am most afraid of. I have tried the latter and must say it is scary shit. This is why people are saying - practise your emergency procedure and stick with it, even if it is not ideal. As there is no perfect solution, go for the one that is in in your "muscle memory" IMO. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

When I received my current canopy (new) - I did a couple of jumps from 14 K opening at around 8 K to play with the canopy. I did not notice a harder then normal opening at all.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Ron is right. No time for deep thoughts about what would be the best procedure when you are passing 2000 feet after deploying your PC and nothing happens. I have been there and done that. My muscle memory is completely drilled on cut-away and then reserve. Time passes fast and you do not want to waste it. I only would go straigt for silver if I have not (can not) deploy PC. Scenario I had: Pull at 2500 feet - wait a few seconds - brain says - ooops nothing has happened - what the f**k - you are passing 2000 feet now - one look behind you (see PC dangling) - 1800 feet - cut-away and reserve procedure - reserve out at around 1300 feet. There is no time to stuff around when you have a high speed mal. I practise my 2 handle procedure at every lift. There have been a few fatalities over the years where people have been found with handles in their hand - they did something - but too late.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

1:5:0 Did 5 canopy control course jumps Sunday. Very good, learned a lot about the hugh variety of inputs possible and it was fun as well. I can only recommend these type of programs, they are really useful and will help prevent accidents. 1 sore hip, as I f***ed up a landing, all landings were filmed and I could not handle the "pressure" . --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Very strict rules here in OZ in regard to who can jump with a tandem. I think you need a minimum of 200 RW jumps in the last 12 month as well as CI approval to be allowed to do it. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Good point. The BBC site is the best (pics and video). Have a look at the video "arrived ahead of schedule" hmmmm. Look at his jumpsuit and gloves.... so you jumped and did glide at 30 K at minus 40 Celsius with that on (and reported speed of 120 Miles/h +). I agree "smells of bullshit". BTW you can see on pics he is wearing birdman suit pants. His landing is real crap --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Clicky with pics and illustration ( a big beat up IMO): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3112095.stm --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What Ron said. I started jumping in the 70's and with the round canopies (especially T-10 and TU (C-9 types) with limited steering and speed - I was involved in picking many people out of trees and also off buildings. No-one ever got seriously hurt as they all were drilled to do as described by Ron (was big part of training in those "roundie days"). Trees are quite "flexible" and normally not a hugh problem if not really tall or if you hit them at high forward speed.. I think there is a very valuable point made. People are extremely scared of landing in water, on roofs and in trees. Yes it can be a problem (depending the situation: i.e. how deep/"big" is the water, how steep is the roof etc.) but I think it is most of the time a much better option then a low turn. The only obstacle I would avoid at nearly any cost is power lines (and freeways ). So it would be a good issue to discuss at DZ's - too many people would rather risk a low turn then landing in trees and that IMO is not the right decision.... Just to emphasize what Ron said, I would try to take as much speed out of the canopy as possible just before hitting the trees. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

10 : 3 : 0 3 nice fun jumps Sunday. 10 frozen fingers. It's bloody cold at 14 K at the moment (middle of winter down here). People overseas think it is always hot in OZ - its not in the southern part of the continent during winter. Actually can see the snow covered snowfields from the plane.... But jumpable most week-ends as it does not rain that much or low clouds that often.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

So your name should be "SkyRabbitOne" instead?