mikkey

There is no Russian continent. More that 2/3 of Russia is East of the Ural Mountains I don't care what relation they have to the Slavic people Saying Indonesia has the most Muslims in kind of meaningless. The only reason for this is because its such a very populated country. There are more Norwegians in the U.S. then there are in Norway but that mean American is more Norwegian than Norway. People following the Muslim faith will as a rule speak Arabic. People following the Muslim faith will as a rule speak Arabic*** No. See above facts taken from the CIA fact book. BTW there are other large Muslim countries outside the Middle East. Malysia is another one (that is in Asia) and others are in Africa. I give you an examle you even might understand. For a long time the Bible was only available in Latin (something Luther rebelled against). That did not mean that all Christians at the time spoke Latin to each others or at all. Comprende? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Do you have to demonstrate your lack of knowledge in such an obvious way? There is a nEuropean part of the Russian federation and there is an Asian. The divide is normally accepted to be at the Ural mountains (geographically). Russians are "Slavic" people and this is an European "ethnic group" - other Slavs include Bulgarians, Poles and others. The are many other ethnic groups in the former Soviet Union, including many Asians. Indians, Pakistanis are Asians or more specific "South Asians" divided into many ethnic sub groups. Indonesia is in South East Asia far away from the Middle East. Population 220 Million plus. Languages: Bahasa Indonesia (official, modified form of Malay), English, Dutch, local dialects, the most widely spoken of which is Javanese. Check out some facts the CIA can help you with at: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/id.html Indonesian Ethnic groups: Javanese 45%, Sundanese 14%, Madurese 7.5%, coastal Malays 7.5%, other 26% - all in no way related to Arabs. Religions: Muslim 88%, Protestant 5%, Roman Catholic 3%, Hindu 2%, Buddhist 1%, other 1% Palestinian people are Arabs, closely related to Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese I hope facts don't get too much in the way of your uninformed and bigot ranting. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The guys was not talking about self-defence. He said that he hates all Arabs and wants to destroy their culture. That means he needs to kill them all. Are you defending that? Or do you think that all Arabs are terrorists? These guys are a minority. It is attitudes like this that helped Hitler (target being the Jews - he blamed them for all evil things) and should have nothing to do with American values. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

8 / 10 (thought son of Sam was working for Microsoft ) --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

For god sake. A couple opf examples from that transcript: The above has actually not been proven. People are speculating that it is a possibility. But your "fair and balanced" reporter states this as a fact. (Typical Fox News stuff). Doing this sets the tone somehow doesn't it? So based on a fact that is actually not a fact, we are lead to conclude there was a connection because there is a connection now (which is unproven )????? That has never been proven. There is no prove that high ranking al-Qaeda members met with Saddams government to cooperate. I do not know the guy who is being interviewed. I just know there are many other "experts" who will have the opposite opinion. The thing goes on and on. Your own President GWB has clearly stated that there are no proved links between al-Qaeda and Saddams regime. If there were documented links the GWB administration would have published it. Examples from a quick search of the BBC web-site: 1. (article) A United Nations committee says it has found no evidence of a connection between Iraq and the al-Qaeda terror network. The UN terrorism committee has released a draft report on al-Qaeda and remnants of the Taleban from Afghanistan. 2. Article regarding Parlament committee findings looking into the war: There were also claims from the United States that Iraq was harbouring known al-Qaeda agents. No clear link between Iraq and al-Qaeda has been established. Having a quick look at the BBC web site, I found this one from June 3. An “expert” opinion – as much fact as the “expert” dragged in by Fox: “The Iraq war was a setback to the ongoing battle against terrorism because it diverted intelligence resources and provided a boost to al-Qaeda's recruitment, a terror expert has told MPs. Professor Paul Wilkinson of St Andrews University also raised the prospect of a nuclear terror attack in evidence to the Commons Foreign Affairs Select committee. He said most counter-terrorism experts accepted there was a "significant downside" to the Iraq war and he suggested there still might be terror attacks avenging the conflict. Prof Wilkinson told the committee: "All of us breathed a great sigh of relief at the fall of the brutal Saddam regime. "[But] most observers on counter-terrorism would accept there was a very significant down-side to the war in Iraq as far as counter-terrorism was concerned." He added: "It takes time for al-Qaeda to organise major attacks of a specialist nature, often months are involved in terms of preparing the personnel, getting the weapons in place and so on. "So we may not have seen the outcome of the plans laid in these recent months of war." Dirty bombs The professor, who heads St Andrew's centre for the study of terrorism and political violence, said al-Qaeda had shown a "great interest" in so-called dirty bombs. "It is quite possible they have the means to construct a dirty bomb technically," he said. Prof Wilkinson dismissed suggestions there was a link between Saddam Hussein's regime and al-Qaeda. "The story that there was a collaboration between them was dreamed up in Washington," he said. "I don't know who dreamed it up but I have found no substance to it." Etc. Try to get information from more then one source. Helps you make up your mind “fair and balanced”. And stop taking opinions (based on snippets of information) and present them as facts. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Problem seems to be that you have no idea what the word "culture" stands for. I think Hitler probably started out saying he just wanted to destroy the jewish culture... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No, you like to hear news presented in a way that suits your view of the world and your political ideology. That does not make it fair or balanced. Quite the opposite. But are you sure it is not a vast right-wing conspiracy? Hillary believes in those and we all know she is the most intelligent woman in the world. *** Well, don't know about that. I have however studied Rupert Murdoch a lot (he is from Australia) and that is interesting reading. He is a very smart man. The concept behind Fox news is very smart. Conspiracy? No. Commercialisation of news and clear political agenda packaged and sold very smartly - yes. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Where. You showed an opinion expressed by someone on TV. Where is the evidence? Why do people like you don't get it? An opinion is not a fact. Laugh = because you are just soooooo in lal-la land Cry = feeling sorry for you --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I do not know if I should be angry or just feel sorry for you. I had just came of a plane here in Australia when the Towers got hit and stayed up all night (our time) watching things unfold and praying for those poor people. Tonight (which is morning your time) I will remember those victims and send my personal thoughts and “vibes” towards their families. People proposing we should destroy cultures, wipe out countries and kill millions are not honouring the victims. But I do not expect you to understand this. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

They probably just tell you what you like to hear. And they are doing it in a very entertaining way (I watch it too - but most for laughs). In my mind that is not a criteria for good journalism. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Should I laugh or cry? - The claim of the connection was not proven before the war and has not been proven since. This has been admitted by GWB himself. So the repeated claim as a reason to go to war was a lie because it claimed something to be a fact that was not proven at all. - The reason I do not give this story credibility is: a) These claims were made before the war and not proven until now. b) According to many other sources there are a lot of investigations going on and if you watch something else then Fox, you might hear Americans and UN people in Iraq talking about that they are not sure who is behind the different attacks (including the major bomb against the cleric). There are speculations that most are Saddam loyalist, other think al-Qaida is active, some think Iran has a finger in it. There is also doubt in regard to - if several groups are involved - how co-ordinated they are. So a lot of uncertainty. I do not know if al-Qaida is active in Iraq – they might – but we do not really know. It is especially stupid to try to "proof" connections prior to the war by speculating about connections now during the occupation. It is possible that al-Qaida has entered Iraq in order to take advantage of the situation and it is possible that they now are working with remainders of Saddams regime, united by their hatred against the US. Possible. But that does not mean it is fact and it does not prove that Saddam worked with al-Qaida before the war. I find it interesting that people like you take an opinion on a news program (and that is all that it is) and present it as fact. Seems like it happens all the time in the threads that discuss Iraq or GWB. And often these “facts” originate from your friends at Fox. No not at all. They are a threat to good journalism because they are in the business of propaganda (and good at it). I remember that the communists in Europe always told us that they were factual and balanced....But let us not start another Fox news thread. We have done that recently. Very threatening indeed. *** LOL I am so frightened. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

In order to destroy the Arab culture you have to kill the people, like Hitler tried to do to the Jews. Expressed hatred based on race and culture is a crime where I live. Don't know about the US. By saying that all Arabs or Muslims have the same thoughts or "culture" then the terrorists you are demonstrating a) that it is you who has a culture of racism and b) that you have very little knowledge of the facts. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Why should moderators not be allowed to post their opinion? That is BS. Why are quade’s postings asinine and so "sided" they should be banned? I find this is a personal attack. His posts are far better documented and formulated then some of these "Saddam did 9/11 and all Muslims should be destroyed and we should bomb some more people – especially the French" type of posts. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No, I do not believe them because of all the lies being told prior and during the War in Iraq. This story has even less credibility then the WMD claims. BTW - if you stopped watching Fox for a moment and did some research, you would see that there is plenty of evidence that Iraq did not cooperate with OBL prior to the war. If he does now, then it purely due to the current situation. It has been proven and been well known that Saddam paid money to Palestinian suicide bombers. But this is a different issue and not one of the "stories" told by GWB and his friends at Fox prior to the war (as it did not present clear and present danger to the Americans). This story is just trying to "justify" the lies you were told leading up to the war. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You are so oversimplifying a complex issue it is not even funny. It is sad. Stop watching Fox and read a couple of books about the Middle East - you might learn some things. For example using "Arabs" as a label for the whole Middle East demonstrate your lack of knowledge. BTW - saying that you hate Arabs as a culture and that you want to destroy them IS racist, bigot and in my book criminal. You are really suggesting killing millions of people. The above-mentioned Mr. Hitler would have been proud of you. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You are joking? I hope.... For God sake - there is no proof (even according to GWB) that Iraq and Bin Laden did cooperate. There actually more proof that they actually were enemies. Please understand that Saddam's regime was secular (e.g. his vice-president was Christian) - that is why Osama hated Saddam - he wants fundamentalist Islamic states. The reason why these guys might be active now in Iraq has nothing to do with Saddam - but everything to do with the presence of Americans, i.e. it is an opportunity for them. Note the word “might” – lately I do not believe what I am being told about Iraq from US sources. I read the other day that up 70% of Americans believe Iraq was involved in 9/11 when it is absolutely clear that there is not even an indication of proof for this. GWB administration and their friends at Fox are doing a damn good job in feeding bullshit to the American people.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Please explain - what are you trying to say? Most large religions - including Islam - are practised by people of all kind of races. Did you know that the largest (or second) largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia (~ 220 M people) Indonesians are Asian not Arabs. Does not quite fit the stereotype of Muslim = Arab. Also, just to clarify, the religion is called Islam a follower of Islam is called a Muslim. There seems to be some confusion about this. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Looks like I have been misunderstood (or me being clumsy). Michele and others are right, travel or no travel does not mean you understand the world or have better informed opinions as such. If somebody travels to a caribbean island and parties 7 days in a row, does not mean they learned anything I was more referring to that Americans (IMO) tend to be more "self centric" or whatever you want to call it. Many reasons for that including the size of the place. However, I think that traveling abroad and actually meeting other cultures, languages and religions tends to increase the understanding of other cultures and the appreciation of the complexity of the World we live in. I live in Australia now, and it is very common for young people to go "back packing" through Asia, Europe or the US for 6 to 12 month. I find this a good thing and I find that people here are both interested and reasonable informed about what goes on outside their own back yard. But this travel thing was not the main point I was making. I just believe these issues contribute to GWB's people getting away with some of the BS they are feeding the public. Just my opinion. And by the way, I said I like the US - but it is not the best place in the world to live - that place is Australia --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, I was talking about "most" Americans and the lack of travel outside the US I think is true. Secondly, the thing I mentioned regarding education - it has been mentioned to me from many American friends, - not based on my own experience - I did not go to school in the US. Also, I am a regular viewer of US news programs via cable. I see ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN (US)etc. news coverage and compare this to e.g. European news programs. There is a hugh difference in international coverage. US channels are only interested if the US is directly involved. Other countries broadcasters have a much more wider and deeper coverage of international issues. Well, I am optimistic enough not to believe the average American is as seen on "Jay walk"... And can I ask you to re-read my post. I was not implying that Americans are stupid or "simple". I was saying they are being fed a "simplified" view of the world and that is a worry to me. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Can you tell me how "you know" ? I do not know if I should laugh or cry when I read these "political" discussions in Talk Back. It disturbs me how many of the US based people who post are calling things "facts" when they are clearly either opinion or even worse "spin" from certain media or the current US administration. I am a world citizen living “down under” but lived many places and grew up in Europe during the cold war. The communist movement was strong then and the propaganda intense. The right wing spin in the US at the moment reminds me too much of how communist propaganda was used to win the argument or create “perceptions”. The way people call facts that do not suit them for “left wing spin etc.” is the same tactics communists in Eastern Europe used (they called it “western propaganda”). As a “world citizen” who via the Internet and his cable TV monitors the media in the US, it does concern me how the citizen of the worlds only super power are either misinformed or oblivious to the complexity of the world around them. It probably starts with the US education system, which does not teach children much if anything about the World outside the US and it continues with Americans in general not travelling outside the US except after they are retired. The result (IMO) is that Americans can be “tricked” into very simplistic perceptions and that is dangerous – both for the world and for democracy in the US as such. The current climate in the US reminds me too much of the hysteria of the 1950’s. I really wish Americans would start to understand that the world is more complex then “bad guys vs. good guys”. It is not black and white – it is all shades of grey. The one thing that might change this is that events unfold in a way that clearly demonstrates to people that they have been fed bullshit. This will then probably make them sit up and start asking themselves if these perceptions that have been created really stand up to scrutiny. The event I am talking about is the current situation in Iraq. I think people are starting to compare the “facts” ($80+ Billion, lots of body bags, WMD) with what they have been told by the current administration over the last 12-month. As unfortunate the current aftermath in Iraq is, at least it might get Americans to be more critical about the spin they get fed by the current administration and their friends in parts of the media. Before the flaming starts, let me just emphasize a couple of things: - I am not a US “hater”. I am still eternally thankful how the US through NATO ensured that I grew up in freedom in Europe. - I have spent a lot of time in the US and like the place. - I am not a “leftie” – I support the current conservative government in Australia (and its involvement in Iraq – but for selfish cynical reasons – it keeps us strategically close to the US). To be conservative does not mean you support a government that lies, deceits and acts plain stupid. It also does not mean that you are against international co-operation. Co-operation between the (West) Europeans and America kept Europe free during the cold war. It was not always easy (the French have always been difficult to work with) – but it worked. - I am happy Saddam’s regime is gone, but the way it was done, the timing, the lack of planning….. and worst of all telling people it had to do with 9/11. I hate when people are being tricked. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You are soooo spoiled.... In the roundie times PC type canopies were known to be soft "landers". I had a C-9 7-TU main for about 60 jumps. I was about 5 kg heavier then the recommended max weight for this canopy. Talking about hard landings..... I used the french type para boots with the thick soles with air "chambers" at the time to make landings less painful... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Good point. The Koran actually forbids acts of terror, i.e. the killing of innocent civilians. It is also worth noting that there are many muslim religions, with the main split being between Suni (spelling?) and Shia and lots of smaller fractions. These are as different as the Christian churches: Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, etc. etc. etc. It is a pity that a lot of people have a very simplified view of very complicated issues. Unfortunately one of these is GWB. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Incident from the APF September News Sheet: "Student with 16 jumps on St 8. Lost height awareness on the track and pulled low. Did not get control of the canopy for some time and landed off DZ in a cane field. Despite 10 jumpers trying to find her, student then sat in the cane for 2 hours with no attempt to walk out until a rescue helicopter found her." --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No, No,.. it is the latest new model called "Otter Van" --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I did a few jumps on the Comp model in the late 70's (fun canopy to jump ) and seem to remember that the "front" was cut "higher" then the standard PC model for greater performance (speed). The CPC I jumped had a tendency to not fully deploy (front collapsed inwards due to to the "profile) before you pumped the brakes a few times. Also seem to remember peeple telling me that the mal rate on CPC's was higher then on the standard PC due to the design differences. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.