mikkey

You don't take it lightly when somebody disagrees with you, do you? So tell me how/why have I misrepresented what you wrote? I have a different opinion and I have a different perspective and I have tried to explain that in quite some detail. Not very nice to accuse somebody of this. Happy to discuss if I got something wrong. [Edited] to delete the next sentence and add: I think I can't be bothered getting into a mud slinging match with kallend. He can call me what he wants. I have great concerns about what is going on in regard to theses accidents everywhere in the world and looking for some good initiatives/ideas from the community. I will not waste my time on kallend if he reacts the way he has. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

My impression is that they are more worried about problems regarding implementation and enforcement. [irony on] of course I have neither read or thought about your many posts. That is why I posted in the first place... duhhh [irony off] - You might think that somebody disputing your reasoning must either be totally stupid or has not read what your wrote. I do accept that you have a position and would not tell you that you probably have not read or thought about the many posts Rob, billvon, hook and others have wrote. You are disputing the suggestions by those "old heads" based on that they in your opinion have not sufficient data to support their case. And you might be right that there is not enough data and there is certainly is NOT enough data to say "The data we have does not support your position at all". My whole post was about what do we do when we don't have enough detailed "data"/research. And my point is that a) the situation is such that we should not remain status quo and watch people smash into the ground at this rate (and it also happens outside the US) and b) people who are very close to the situation and have a lot of experience are suggesting a way forward that I agree with. And I accept their reasoning more then I accept your arguments for not regulating. But I would not demean your intellect just because I don't agree with you. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

It is clear kallend does not accept anything that cannot be backed up by statistics and research – a very “academic” view. I think however that in the "real world" we many times have to take decisions without hard data - we do it based on experience and reasoning. I work in the corporate world at a reasonable senior level - and I can tell you, important decisions are very often made without perfect data. These decisions are based on assumptions based on experience and observation. Perfect data is mostly not available. It is the same at home, when I teach my 4 year old boy not to do this or that because it is unsafe, it is not because I have statistics I can show him, it is because my live experience has taught me so. The people who kallend disagrees with have many years in the sport, many work on DZ's and they have thousands of jumps. Don't tell me that this does not count. First hand experience is very important and is often more accurate then statistics. A lot of research based on scientific methods has been shown to be wrong. In marketing, 9 out of 10 product launches in the consumer market fail and I can tell you that all these new products have been thoroughly researched using scientific methods and statistics. Some of the most successful products ever launched, were based on somebodies conviction that this was the right thing to do based on "gut" and experience and they were not “scientifically researched” at all. Now, I have been on and off involved in the sport for 25 years. I know jack shit, because I always been a "fun jumper" and had lot of yearlong breaks between jumps. However, the thing I "know" is that when I first started people did not get killed and injured under good canopy in the way they do now. If I correctly remember some available USPA stats that I have seen, the fatality rate today per 100 thousand jumps is about half of what it was 10/20 years ago IF you discount the canopy landing related incidents. The reasons I assume are mainly better equipment (incluing AAD's) and better training. However, due to the landing incidents the total fatality rate has not decreased significantly. So we are seeing a fatality and serious injury rate that is "unnecessary" because it happens under perfectly working canopies. So what do we do about it? (I assume people want to reduce these incidents – I am however aware that there are proponents of “Darwin”) On one hand you have many very experienced skydivers that have seen lots of these incidents, who know the people who "went in" and who based on their experience say that IF you want to change this situation you need to introduce some form of regulation and mandatory training. On the other hand you have people like kallend say we should maintain status quo because we do not have enough stats and scientific research on the matter. I know where my vote is. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Wayne, APF regulations are enforced very strictly down here. No way they let yo jump without an AAD with your jump numbers. Sorry. Can you "rent" a Cypres at your DZ? The other thing you can do is to leave the rig at home and rent gear at e.g. Picton. Good idea is to contact in advance and find out what they have available. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No, that is the stuff the red-necks up in Queensland drink Down here in Victoria we drink Victoria Bitter, Carlton Cold and Crown Lager. BTW - No need to shout (caps). And don't assume anything: "WE'VE WATCHED THE STUFF. WE KNOW THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. " It is a little rude to tell people that you "know" they don't know what they are talking about - without knowing them and their sources. I have Fox News at home and I watch it regulary (and O'Reilly) and I compare it to the BBC, CNN and lots of Internet news sources. And yes, I was (tung in cheek) trying to do some Fox News bashing. I am just such a huge Murdoch fan Also: Are you implying that the information in my profile is untrue? For which reason? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Interesting. So you are disgusted because you have first hand knowledge about what O'Reilly was talking about. You think he misrepresented facts and used it for political purposes (smash Clinton/Democrats) - but you say you still support him (and probably Fox News as such). What about the stories you don't have first hand knowledge about - are you sure this is totally out of character? You don't see a pattern here? Like Poo Bear says: "think, think, think...." --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Reading many of kallend's post I conclude that he is both knowledgeable and an experienced skydiver. But when he gets involved in the WL debate he reminds me of this bright communist Polish exchange student I was taking care of in the 70's - every time we had a political debate it ended up with that she called my arguments and facts "bloody western propaganda" and that was it... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Totally agree with Jim here. Do NOT buy something to "grow into it" - it is too risky. Why don't you rent gear until you have a few more jumps and then re-visit the issue? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Canberra is cold in Winter - especially at night - the next few weeks you might encounter temperatures below freezing. But as it is common it can easily warm up to around 15 to 20 C (thats around 60-70 F) and if you travel further north it is more like Florida in winter. So you need both T-shirt and warm clothing. Domestic flights at standard price with Qantas are expensive. However, we have a discount airline "Virgin Blue" that is cheaper. Also, there are discount fares for Qantas available over the Internet. Rule of thumb is that the earlier you book the cheaper it is. So plan ahead and buy tickets as soon as possible. Book online (cheapest). I think it is www.qantas.com.au and www.virginblue.com.au In regard to driving. Drive to Sydney it is not too far away and if you want to jump in Picton definitely drive as it South West of Sydney so only a few hours from Canberra, if you fly you have to drive for at least an hour to get there. Also, Australia is nearly as large as the US and has the population of California concentrated in a handful of urban centers. So alot of empty space... Some drives are worth it others are just absolutely boring. You need to study some web resources to decide and it depends on how much time you have. The drive all the way up north is very long - but lots of spots of interest on the way. If you go to Brisbane it is about 1200 KM. If you want to see the Great Barrier Reef you probably want to go to Cairns (nice up there) but that is about 3000 KM - so very far to drive. Yes, hot air ballooning is everywhere - but expensive. Jumping from one might be a problem. You can not just jump outside regulated DZ's. Try to contact the APF and ask. I normally say to people that if they have limited time they should get up to Cairns / Port Douglas and do the rain forrest and the Great Barrier Reef. However, you are from Florida so you are used to tropical weather, coral reefs etc. So for you I would say go to the Outback. Either fly to Alice Springs in the middle and see amongst other things Ayers Rock or even better go to Darwin and visit the Kakadu National Park. Have Fun! --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

So what do you say to her when you "are putting her on" - "Who's your Daddy?" Nice rig, looks fantastic. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I should probably not respond to your post... Nope, you were saying the French should look after their own first and brought in this stupid A/C issue. Check your post. I do not understand what you are talking about. Are you talking about 9/11? If yes, has anybody said the US should not go after Osama and Co.? Nope, we are not. I do not agree with the Bush administrations way of handling foreign policies. I do not like Fox News. But I like lot of other things about the US and have friends and family in the US. Many Americans share the views expressed by myself - So all those Americans are biased against Americans? You make no sense to me. I suggest you have a strong coffee. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Good for you. I actually watch Fox (one of many news services I follow) that is why I was commenting on them. I actually agree, but that does not mean I think the US has handled things very well post Afghanistan. I agree with Remster - they are rude but they do not hate. It is just the way they are. Well I speak 5 and I lived in 4 countries on 2 continents. So your point is? And what have A/C units to do with this discussion? I lived in Scandinavia for many years, nobody has air conditioning (it does normally not get very hot). Now I live in Australia where everybody has a A/C unit installed. So Australians are much smarter and better then Northern Europeans??? You lost me on this one... Well yes there are people doing this and we should try to fight them. But the problem is Iraq was not involved in 9/11.... So your point is? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Interesting thread. The following is from the Australian Parachute Federations July news letter and shows how easy you can get into trouble: "Harassment allegation A Victorian tandem-master thought his DZ owner was joking about a sexual harassment complaint from a passenger. But it was no laughing matter. The woman was adamant she’d been indecently assaulted, the TM was equally strong in his denials, and we needed to resolve it all as quickly and quietly as possible. The woman claimed the TM pushed his erection against her in freefall and continued to do so after the canopy opened. While the video showed nothing untoward, the woman was very distressed when she lodged her complaint with the APF, and her furious boyfriend was demanding action. As the VPC’s Harassment Contact Officer, I was not expected to ‘investigate’ as such, or make a conclusive finding. My task was to explain the woman’s options and see if her complaint could be resolved informally. Most importantly, she needed to be reassured that the system was taking her complaint seriously, and that it wouldn’t happen again. Hopefully, the case has now been resolved with many delicate discussions, a refund cheque and a very carefully worded letter. The DZ and the TM maintain their innocence, and suggest the woman must have felt part of the harness or jumpsuit. Apart from the woman’s own account, there’s no other evidence to support her allegation. But we’ve all learned a few lessons from the experience. . Firstly, the TM must be very grateful for the video in this case. If the jump wasn’t recorded, imagine how he’d fare if the case ended up in court with his word against hers. It was also interesting to note the woman’s surprise at the physical closeness involved in a tandem skydive. She’d seen photos and videos, but she wasn’t fully prepared for being attached so tightly against a stranger for so long. (She was also carrying some personal baggage of her own, but I won’t go into that here.) As a result of this incident, the APF has added a waiver clause about the close physical contact in our sport. TMs might also consider stressing this point in their briefings. Unfortunately, a few too many people became aware of the allegation, leading to uninformed discussion. The TM even received text messages from his amused mates. Well, as I said earlier, it wasn’t funny. But it was a timely wake up call. Sexual harassment is a real issue, and it’s a potentially expensive one if a case succeeds in court. We all need to watch our own behaviour and keep an eye on others around us. But, keep an open mind too! Nice blokes have been known to cross the line, and sleazebags can be the innocent victims of a misunderstanding. Kelly Graham, VPC Harassment Contact Officer" --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I don't think Europeans think that - I think Fox News told you they do Tsss, tsss that is a stupid argument (you heard this one on Fox - right ? ). Same as saying you guys should be more concerned about those people living (and dying) on the streets in the US instead of using money invading other countries..... Hey, a lot of people supported getting rid of Saddam - it was the bullshit about him being involved in 9/11 and the "immediate danger" that we have a problem with. And it is double standards slamming the "Krauts" and the "Frogs" for the business connections with Iraq when one of the reasons for the way this was done is to get control over the Oil and the reconstruction money - not even the allies who sent troops can get a look into those contracts - ask the Australians. And BTW I am sure there are more people in the US "hating" the French then the other way around - courtesy of the "fair and balanced way" Fox News has reported about the french. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The issue is not so much the action itself (invading Iraq) - I am actually supporting it (Saddam was one of the worst dictators since Hitler & Stalin) - I have a problem with "How". The lack of working with the international community is disgusting, the reasons stated for invading were not honest, the way the UN was undermined is stupid in the long term, the way the best "allies" of the US were "pushed" into it will be damaging for their governments etc and the current problems are a result of this. Just a couple of thought in regard to some of the posts in this thread: 1) Fox is the most popular news channel. I think the reason is NOT its "politics" it is the way it has re-defined news as an entertainment product. The focus is on car chases, crimes, celebrities etc. - this has made the "news" easy to digest and entertaining. The smart trick (and that is totally on purpose) is to slide the ideology into this style - and it works. That does not make it "balanced" and does not make it "good" news. It is actually bad journalism, because complex issues are presented in a simplified way. 99% of issues are not black and white, it is always some shade of gray. Murdoch is smart but he is also dangerous for journalism because he is "using" it for an agenda, more then I ever saw it most other news organisations - it sometimes reminds me of the way the former communist countries did it. 2) "Middle of the road" - some posters said that Fox is "middle of the road" or just "slight" to the right. Well, this is a bogus argument. I am politically a conservative where I live and would be a conservative in Europe, but in the US I would be a Democrat and a liberal. So it all depends. The only thing I can conclude from reading "political" posts in Talk Back is that Americans in average are far more to the "right" then people in other western democracies. Maybe it is a difference in culture or maybe a result of a more "insular" mentality. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Oh goodness -- haven't you heard? Your opinion doesn't count -- you're not in the US Honestapete -- here you go, you're nice and let someone be your ally, and all of a sudden they think their opinion matters! ------------------------------------------------------------ Yes it does, because you export your damn media to other countries ooops, Rupert is actually Australian. Honestly, US policies have great effect on other countries - and policies are influenced by media. So, excuse me, but I think we are entitled to an opinion as long as you guys try to run the World.... I assume you were just making fun, but there is a trend in the US (yes especially at FOX) to ignore the opinion of people outside the US. And it will be at your own peril. The US was told that Iraq was a complex problem and would be a huge challenge post Saddam - the US ignored and now is in trouble. The US "pissed" on the Europeans and the UN and now wants their help.... hmmmm, lets see.... The Israel/Palestine problem would be solved if just we would get rid of Saddam.... hmmmmmm.... For a non-US person the Clinton administration was much better for one reason - Clinton was actually listening to his allies and understood that the world is complex and not a Wild West movie where the good guys have a white hat on and the bad ones a black hat - and the happy ending was when the guys with the black hat were dead. Ooops guys with black hats are actually not dead yet. My favorite US show is Jay Leno. He does these Street Talk segments. It really shows how little knowledge people have of the world. And Fox is where they get their news.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You Yanks are so funny....

Hi Wayne, I hope you will enjoy your stay down under. A couple of points: 1) Remember it is Winter down here at he moment and Canberra is located in an area that actually gets pretty cold during Winter - especially at night (below freezing). So pack some warm clothing. Many people overseas believe it is always warm down here, but that is only true in the Northern part of the continent. (you can also go skiing while here - the snow fields are not that far from Canberra and there is plenty of snow at the moment). 2) DZ's. I do not know much about skydiving in Canberra - but I think it is very limited and definitely no Turbo aircraft. Your best options is probably to go North to Sydney to Sydney Skydivers in Picton. That is approx. 220 KM and 3 hours drive. You can also go South to Nagambie (north of Melbourne) - Turbo Caravan DZ and very nice people (including me ). That is a little further and more like 570 KM and 7 hours drive. Or if you want to be sure to have warmer weather this time of year. Take a flight to Brisbane and go out to "Ramblers" - they have very nice facilities and 2 Caravans. A good web site to check where things are and distance in Australia is: www.whereis.com.au 3) For information about Skydiving down under in general and links to all DZ's go to the APF web site: http://www.apf.asn.au I hope this helps and you enjoy your stay. If you have time, take some leave and travel around. Australia is very diverse and you see things you wont see anywhere else in the World. Just make sure to plan well - OZ is nearly as big as the US - so very large distances. Hope this helps. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Which is about US$800 to $900 K depending on current exchange rate (which has fluctuated a lot recently). Is that about half the price of a new Caravan?? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I have to agree with the other posts. When I came back after a 10+ year lay off and re-gained currency on student rigs I had bad bruises on my arms every time I jumped. The moment my new "tailor made" rig arrived the problem was gone. So a) make sure the rig is adjusted to your size and b) get your own rig asap --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think there is a difference between taking a canopy control class and attending a swoop seminar. The people in favor of WL restrictions have proposed to build in some progressions based on training and I agree. But it is not any training - it is well defined training that matches peoples experience. If you have around 200 jumps you should first learn to fly you canopy and use ALL input methods correctly - at altitude. You should NOT be attending swoop seminars. I find it irresponsible by the guys in Rantoul to let a guy with 200 jumps, loaded 1.5 participate in a swoop seminar (flame me if you want) and give him HP landing techniques to practice at home. The "sky god" who did this should have a good look at himself. When I attended a canopy control class, the first thing we did was talking safety and theory and the instructors went in detail through each participants "record" - i.e. no. of jumps, canopy, WL and currency. We did not swoop - we learned how to fly and control the canopies. You have to learn to walk before you can run! --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think the key is: "200+ jumps under a Stiletto 135 loaded around 1.5" That is IMO just too much with his experience, swoop seminar or no swoop seminar. Also, I assume that swoop seminars are different from a canopy control class. I went on a canopy control class down here in OZ and we did no Swoop stuff what so ever. All landings were filmed and reviewed, but the class was about canopy "input" and I learned a lot. Like one of the instructor told us: Do NOT start swooping and carving before you have learned all there is about you canopy up at altitude using all available input methods - and be prepared to spend hundreds of jumps learning it. I think that BEFORE somebody attends swooping seminars at 200 jumps, they should first learn canopy control skills (at altitude). I believe going on a swoop seminar with little experience and skill (and high WL) and then come back and "try what I learned" is actually dangerous. Just my 2 cents. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Look, AFAIK there are over 300 documented Cypres safes world wide. I have not seen any documented Cypres "failures" (i.e. did not fire when it should have). The reason that the Cypres has been so successful as a product - in spite of its high price -, is its reliability. I believe you can trust the device, but NEVER EVER rely on it. It is constructed to be your last "out" without firing in situations when it should not. That is why there a lots of situations where the Cypres will not safe your ass. You need to familiarize yourself with what exactly the job of the Cypres is. A general rule is that IF it fires and you were conscious at the time, you should have a think about quitting the sport. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Richard Branson is trying to steal Felix' thunder See following article I found. Expect Felix to show up one way or the other at the evnet - as there will be a lot of publicity " 'Birdman' Branson set to take plunge British entrepreneur Richard Branson has recovered his appetite for adventure and has set his sights on a record closer to home. After famously failing to set new records for an Atlantic speedboat crossing and round-the-world balloon trip, the Virgin tycoon now only has to fly more than 89.2 metres to enter the record books - but he has to do it under his own power. Branson is one of this year's contestants at the Birdman Festival, at which inventors and other eccentrics from around the world strap on home-made wings and fling themselves off the pier at the southern British town of Bognor Regis and, in most cases, straight into the sea. Their aim is to reach France, but so far the furthest anyone has got towards that goal is precisely 89.2 metres. "I have done many crazy things over the years but attempting flight from Bognor Pier is one of the biggest challenges," Branson said. The design of the apparatus in, on or under which the Virgin Atlantic airline boss and founder plans to throw himself into the brine on August 31 is a closely guarded secret. The only clue available is that Branson has, reputedly, been following a vigorous training program to increase the distance he can cover before the inevitable splash-down. Branson pointed out that this year's Birdman Festival marks the 150th anniversary of the first manned flight in an aircraft designed by a Briton, George Cayley. "My attempt will pay tribute to Britain's role in aviation history," he added, without a hint of irony. " I think Richard heard about Felix' comments after the alleged Channel crossing... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Now thats not very nice - no personal attacks please Most students are terrified before their first jump - not many freeze on jumnp run (but some do). Most of the time it is impossible to judge who will and who wont. He was sharing an experience with us - no need to insult him... especially if you were not present at the time. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.