Ron

That is part of canopy training. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can Start learning to fly as soon as you can reach the controls, but you cannot solo until 16. To get the license 17. Driving depends on the State... 14 years to 17 years, while most States have a graduated licensing law that gives more rights as the driver gets older. Shooting. Like flying you can shoot when you can hold the weapon. But you may not purchase a rifle till 18 and a handgun till 21. So basically 17 to fly, 16 to drive, 18 to shoot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That's not true. Now if you have a B or above you would be correct, but students and A's are only allowed at 3k. Attacking? No. Concerned and bringing it up? Sure. Hey, I had a guy with 200 jumps give me grief for pulling at 2.5k Even telling him I had 4k jumps didn't change his opinion. So I just thanked him and ignored him. That being said.... Ever notice that the guys with thousands of jumps tend to pull higher than the min's????? There is a reason for that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It would depend on the DZ. I have been to DZ's that asked to see my logbook.... A problem since I have not had a logbook in 3k jumps. They would not accept a neptune, so I doubt they would accept an iphone logbook. Luckily, I have been around long enough and have enough ratings that most people just accept my neptune and move on.... So it will depend on the DZ and how they feel about it.... I have had problems without a logbook. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I'd prefer the one that in a normal situation does not try to kill me. Opening the door in flight is pretty normal. A 1400 foot exit is not. I guess you would prefer the airbag occasionally fire when you roll down the window? And I have never had a problem with a Cypres or C2.... Fact is that one single data point is a lousy reference for making a choice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Looks like Academy to me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why? 1. Everyone seems to acting polite. 2. Smokin a dube seems more of a "bonfire" topic. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

JB.... There is a reason why Moonies and (particularly V tailed) Bonanza's are know as "Dr. Killers" The guys get rated and have the money to buy them, but not yet the experience to fly them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not using a radio on top of a rig is less likely than a door opening in skydiving. To the OP... Like my PM said, I did the research and bought a C2. The few dollars in savings was not worth the (even slight) increased risk of a misfire to me. I'd rather an AAD never fire than fire when it should not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, what he is saying is that if one thinks night jumps are useless since they could not happen without prior planning then it is even easier to avoid HP canopy flight. And BTW I have given a night jump brief on the ride to altitude before because it looked like it was going to be darkish when we landed. I told everyone that they could stay on the plan no issue, but if they were going to jump...Listen up. It was pretty dark... so "night" jumps have a better chance of just happening than HP canopy flight. He never suggested banning anything.... He never has. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your car analogy does not work. You have 10 years of driving exp. You don't have to think when a kid jumps in front of you while driving down the street... You already know what to do and *how* to do it. In those 10 years you have accumulated thousands of hours of driving time. (Lets say you do 15000 miles a year and EVERY mile was at 60.... That would be 2,500 hours of exp). If I found a guy that had been jumping sabers for 10 years I'd bet he could handle a single jump on a Velo as well. That would be comparable to your one day in the track Vette. Hell, I have almost 5k jumps over 18 years and that is about 330 hours of canopy flight.... That is not even close to your exp driving your VW's. It would be safe to say you are more experienced at driving than I am flying a canopy. The metaphor is not perfect... It is not strict enough. The Vette has brakes that let you stop it at any time. The velo does not. For them to be the same the Vette would have to only have a speed range close to it's maximum with no ability to stop till you got to the finish line. So while the metaphor is not 100% accurate, it actually is not a dangerous enough example.... Take the Ferrari and take the brakes off of it unless it is at a finish line and make it go about 40-80% of full throttle in top gear and it starts to get a little closer to a velo. But the "Iwanna be a jet fighter" feeling of the metaphor applies quite well. 16 year olds want the Ferrari but they don't care they can't really handle it and new jumpers want the velo and don't realize they can't handle it. So your analogy is clearly flawed.... We took an exp driver and put him in a higher exp car. That would be like the guy with 1000 jumps on the Sabre getting a Velo. If you have a better metaphor.... Suggest it. Right now the Ferrari one is darn close and it uses an object and a situation that most people understand. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That's how I feel about it. You can do as you please till it impacts another person. I have always wondered about the legal/Employee issue in CA, but never cared enough to ask someone. Then I saw the Miami paper said that FL is working on it.... Heck, I say legalize it and tax it. BTW, I don't smoke pot... But think as long as it does not hurt anyone else..... Do as you please is my opinion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Jump only one day a mth and save the money that you would normally spend jumping and on rig rental and save it till you can buy a used rig. Get a PT time job to fill your other free days and use every cent of that job to save for your rig. Want something? Work harder for it. Unless like most people you don't pay the rig off and end up at the end of the "term" still paying on the rig. Being concerned with how others think of you is not the best *financial* move. Again not really a big deal. Never advised that. I would recommend not putting AFF on a CC however. 1. Rent one day a mth, make 5 jumps 2. The other 7 days a mth work a PT job... Even making min wage that's ~ 200 mth you could save for a rig. 3. Buy a used rig Here is one for 1600 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=97545;d=1 Here is one for 1900 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=97965;d=1 Here is one for 2100 with a 170 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=98091;d=1 Here is one for 1200 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=98696;d=1 Here is one for 1500 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=98951;d=1 Here is a smaller one for 1500 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=98999;d=1 Here is another one http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=99817;d=1 Now, none of them are "sexy", but they all seem to be in decent shape and will let you jump without dropping thousands on credit. You can even save MORE money by buying one piece at a time. So in 6-10 mths you could make 30 to 50 jumps and at the end have your own rig. So it clearly can be done... You will not be the cool kid on the block, you will not have cool matching gear, you may have to deal with being looked at like a student longer than you would like.... But it clearly can be done. My first rig was 1500 and it was an older rig, but worked well enough that I put about 500 jumps on it. I was making about 12k a year when I bought my first rig. And like I said in my first post, "I am 99% sure this advice will be ignored, and about 90% sure that someone will claim I am being stupid and to "live for the moment".... But all it takes is one look at the financial situations of so many people to know that going into debt for toys is not a good move." YOU are in charge of YOUR life.... You can live your life in debt like everyone else and throw your credit card at any and everything you want... Or you can make smart moves and live debt free. Yes, my wife and I are debt free. Both drive 2006 cars. Save for retirement. We are in contract to buy another house that we will take a loan on, but if we liquidated a bit we could put over half the purchase price down (without touching 401's or Roth's). I make about 300 jumps a year (working at a DZ doing AFF and Tandems PT, along with my team training and fun jumps) and she makes ~150 a year. While SCUBA diving and traveling (Panama 10, Bahamas 08) AND I was laid off in 2009 (hence no trip that year). Read #1 and #5 on this list: http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/finance/article-110926-6907-5-top-5-tips-to-build-wealth-and-success?ywaad=ad0035 So it can be done.... The question is if you would rather live like everyone else and live in debt, or live like a weirdo and actually have money and invest so your money works for you. It is your choice..... I used to think people like me were stupid too. I ran up credit so I could jump a bunch.... Life now is MUCH better. You get to choose: Put things on credit so you pay interest to others and let them live better or invest and have others pay you to live better. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-10-07/news/legalize-marijuana-in-florida/ So.... Can a company in Cali fire a person over a drug test if they have a prescription? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Many DZ's have daily rental rates. SDC used to charge 60/day I think and only the last jump had to be packed by a rigger. Dallas had daily rates also I think.... Where I learned they started charging me rental rates and then just stopped one day. *IF* the loan is paid off. I have seen this time after time in my 18 years in the sport... People buy on credit and when the bill is due they can't pay it. I got caught up in the game years ago when I used to buy blocks of tickets on credit... My logic was that the discount was worth it.... But I ran out of tickets before I paid the card off... Whip out the card and get another 100 tickets. That year I made close to 500 jumps, I'd hate to do the math to find out how much OVER retail I paid due to finance charges. If people are financially savvy enough, they don't normally have to finance a 2-3k dollar expense. I have a buddy that has a new boat and a new motorcycle.... Of course his house is in foreclosure, but that does not matter... He has a new bike and boat, right? I understand the passion of wanting everything now and making hundreds of jumps a year..... But the final cost has to be considered and should not be taken lightly... and the trend around skydiving is people leap first, and look later. Buying a set of skydiving gear (hobby) on credit has to be the worst financial planning move since taking money out of your 401k to buy gear. A 7k purchase on a CC will add $1172.50 to the total price if you pay 375/mth. *Based on an industry average of 16.75% right now. http://www.indexcreditcards.com/credit-card-rates-monitor/ Also understand that I know people are just going to ignore me on this...... 1. Buy used 2. Pay cash "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just a quick look at the complete gear kits for sale on here don't show 4k being a reasonable asking price. 3k seems like a more reasonable number (based on a peek, not a number crunch). For 2-3k you could get a used rig -AAD (again,based on the classifieds here and personal exp). And a 2-3k hit on a 7k purchase is not really a good return, IMO. Add in finance charges too. taking out a 12% loan on 7k would add 1680.00 to the total *if* it was paid in 2 years. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No way would a rig with 500-1000 jumps sell for close to retail. If you think that, I have a Vector 3 that I'll gladly sell for the bargain price of 1500 bucks to you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Save up and pay cash for it. Going into debt for something that will lose value is not a wise financial move. Yes, I know that you want it BAD, but think about the financial mess people are in and in most cases they put themselves there by not being responsible. I am 99% sure this advice will be ignored, and about 90% sure that someone will claim I am being stupid and to "live for the moment".... But all it takes is one look at the financial situations of so many people to know that going into debt for toys is not a good move. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can link to the Fatality or give me some details that would help with the search? I tried to find the fatality and failed. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I see it as a distraction under canopy. With canopy collisions going up.... I think we need less distractions, not more. Study after study has been done about people being distracted by music while driving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then maybe you should not just say, "If it takes you more than 2-3 seconds to unbuckle your helmet then yeah... you have problems." Lots of people have died trying to perform in air rigging. Ah, but the key is to minimize the risk by following best practices. Something you seem to have zero interest in doing. I am going to get re-rated on a different tandem system (it is the first system I was rated on years ago, but have not jumped it in 8 years)... The DZ that I will be working at has the TI's wear Go Pro's on their hand. Now, do you think I am gonna just strap on a Go Pro while re-learning the system? Nope.... I will be passing up money to limit the distractions and take them one at a time. A very wise skydiver told me many years ago that the secret to surviving this sport is to only change one thing at a time.... And only add distractions once you have the other layers of performance second nature. It is pretty clear you are not an idiot... even clear that you don't panic. But it is ALSO clear that you only have a half assed at best understanding of MANY things in skydiving as evidenced by your cutting away your helmet before a very clean cutaway. You took something someone typed on DZ.com about not wearing an RSL since it could cause an entanglement issue, and having the ability to cutaway a camera *IF* it entangles and took it all the way to cutting away the helmet *BEFORE* you cut away...... A leap in "logic" that no one advocated. That kind of 'creative' thinking is dangerous and shows how much of a rookie you are. Now I am glad you didn't get hurt, but I am also glad your camera helmet didn't slam into someone on the ground. It is also clear that you really have zero interest in listening to anyone that does not agree with your position. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My point made better than I could make it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah, but you just said, "could be less than someone with half their jumps"... So even you admit jumps is a metric. And you just assume that a person did the same thing over and over badly...... And that that exp does not apply to anything, unless it is the exp you want to count. But you claim to have it. The guy with 2k jumps is likely more aware than the guy with 200 in almost every case. He has experience that the 200 jump guy does not. Plus, the guy with 2k jumps has LANDED 2k times. And no amount of high turns really prep you for landing. And the people with more experience are better able to judge what is and what is not the *right* experience. In the 200 vs 2k jump guy.... The 2k jump guy has deployed and landed 10 times more than the guy with 200 jumps and in that 1800 extra jumps has learned a ton of different things and had a ton of extra situations. In the end, think of it this way... What would you say to a guy with 20 jumps that claims he is a "natural" and knows better than you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really.. More a case of line of flight tracking and exit separation. One canopy was open, the other was *Opening*.... Type of canopy in regards to high or low performance after it was open has very little to do with that accident. This is an example of you taking a data point and trying to make it fit where it does not in the hopes that it will make your argument sound better.... All you have really done is shown that you didn't really understand the Australian accident at all. More correctly, low *experience*.... Jump numbers is a pretty good average indicator of experience in most cases since you can only have an equal number of landings as jumps. Natural talent... Is something that many like to claim they have, but few actually do. Dedication to canopy piloting can help, but the number of landings can only equal the number of jumps you have.... so a guy with 200 jumps and "a dedication to canopy flight" is not as qualified as the guy with 2k and "a dedication to canopy flight". Mental state can play a roll. And still is a situation where experience can be a factor. Two guys facing the same distraction... I'd bet on the more exp guy doing a better job than the lower exp guy. Ego/cockyness.... A trait you seldom are able to self-diagnose if you are afflicted with it. One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience: education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal." -- Chesley Burnett "Sully" Sullenberger III I dare you to argue that experience is NOT important to safety. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not to you, but a quote I think every canopy pilot should think about: "One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience: education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal." -- Chesley Burnett "Sully" Sullenberger III "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334