Ron

Yes, in fact a jump can be boring. Don't believe me? I assume you drive a car right? Back before you got your license, I bet you pestered the hell out of your parents to drive to the store to get milk. Now I bet when you find you are out of milk you hate the idea of having to drive to the store to get more. The best way to manage the fear is to know your dive flow like it was automatic. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you think it is OK for a company to use pictures of other DZ's and other instructors in their ads? You think it is OK for a company to tell a customer that they will be jumping at "Skydive Tampa", but then only AFTER they have paid they are given directions to DeLand while passing 3 DZ's on the way? And that they do not give refunds when you find out they lied about the DZ? Yeah, I see that as a dirty trick. If they had been honest, that would be one thing, but time after time they have taken the low road. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And thats why some people have silly mals. I'd rather not have to chop something for some stupid reason that could have been 100% prevented by paying a little attention. Silly analogy, makes no sense. The toggles are stowed, just like my handles. Also makes no sense why you would try to be arrogant... And even edit the post and admit to it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about just look at what you grab? I don't stow any brake line excess and have not in over 3k jumps. I just make sure to look at the toggles and clear the lines before I grab and pull. DOWN WITH VELCRO "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, in fact I did that just Saturday. My student (L4) was doing his best under canopy, but had zero chance of making the landing area. I think it had to do with toggle induced bad spotting since he did his canopy requirements (L&R riser turns toggles stowed, L&R riser turns toggles unstowed, and L&R toggle turns) right after opening and then tried to head to the holding area.... One of the issues with the AFFI jumping the radio, I was unable to guide him until I had landed. Anyway, he clearly was not going to clear the tarmac with the aircraft tie downs... so I directed him to an open field. Even though I ran towards him, I was blocked by a big fence and I had to do my best to guide him into the field. I told him to line up with a clear runway (don't aim at an obstacle) then had him go into half brakes to ensure he would not overshoot the area. I then put him into full flight at about 150 feet and tried to help time the flair. But it is difficult at that kind of distance. He landed fine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Zhills: Great place for boogie style jumps. Organizers all over the place. Good bar and lots of fun. I lived on the DZ for years. They also have FF and a Wing Suit group. DeLand: Amazing place. Great for team training. Fantastic aircraft and one tight run ship. If you are looking for fun jumps.... Well they don't normally have organizers and while there is some amazing talent there, they are normally training. I personally love the place, but not for "fun" loads. Lake Wales: Yeah, unless you want to do a Tandem... Go somewhere else it seems Titesville: Same owners as Lake Wales and seem to have the same issue. Sebastian: Great views. Bigger on Freeflying than flat flying. I have been there with my wife and done two ways since we were the only two flat fliers. Palatka: Fun place, been there a few times. They have a good vibe and I hear now have a Caravan. Art is a guy I respect. Clewiston: My current FL home DZ. A nice King Air and some really nice people. Skill levels vary but they are working on bringing the new folks up. If I could only visit one... Zhills. Close to a big city and they do a great job of being friendly. I'd go to Sebastian. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why does skyride falsely advertise DZ's that do not exist? Well, if you can't pay your fuel bill... then maybe you should be honest in telling people thats why the DZ was closed. As for not being able to pay your fuel bill... Maybe that also means you are not doing the maintenance on the plane. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree... Remember I had said: 1. Educate 2. Warn 3. Ban Can you tell us his jump#, WL etc? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Exactly.... They are different. If you have a problem with the S&TA doing things they should not be doing, then it is more an issue with the S&TA process than anything else. When you are a pilot and want to fly a HP plane. You can have an instructor sign you off for HP flight. If an Inst is just pencil whipping for his buddies... that is an issue with that Inst, not the process that works 99% of the time. Just look at Section 61.31(f) of the FARs. This seems to work in aviation, why would it not work in skydiving? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Close the door and the jumper is going to be pulled right through it. "Tightly secure" them... and whatever is being used to hold them down will be broken, or taken out with them. If a PC goes out the door.... Shove the dude out. If it is yours get the hell out. We did this experiment.... Give it a whirl yourselves. Get a PC (either get one from a rigger, or take one off your main) and STARTING AT A DEAD STOP AND ONLY HOLDING IT hold it out your car window and start driving down the road. See how fast you can get it before it wants to rip your arm off. Let us know how this works out for you...... Video it for grins. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe because so many people bitch at and about the 200 jump person under a 1.5 that it just does not happen that much. Sample size has a lot to do with things. Look at it this way.... Say only three guys have 100 jumps and a 1.5 WL. but all three go in. There might be 1000 jumpers that have 1000 jumps and 10 go in. That is going to skew the numbers to look like the 1000 jump wonder is the danger.... But the 100 jump guys with a 1.5 has a 100% fatality rate in this example vs the 1% rate for the other guys. Also, a lot of folks do not start hook turning till 200-300 jumps. So that is going to skew the numbers. Example: Take a look at the jump number of instructors that die. Well, since most folks need 400ish jumps to get an instructor rating.... that does not mean than a guy with 200 jumps would be safer as an instructor. The data given is nice and a good data point... But incomplete. That does not mean it should be ignored, but it should not be taken as the only important point. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is a difference between a "mandated course" and "a consistent baseline". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What is does not show is if any of those people had training or if prior training would have prevented the accident. Also... People trying to learn hook turns.... Most people will not start trying till 200ish jumps, so that will shift the numbers North. Canopy Collisions... Well, I'd bet most collisions are big ways and people with

1. You have defended him doing it. 2. You have argued that it is not a factor in accidents. 2 incidents that were attributed to bad MX and a 664k fine from the FAA seem to show you are wrong. Your posts show otherwise. Again, your posts show otherwise. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What you are doing is ignoring the fact that ignoring MX leads to a higher chance of an accident just to be argumentative. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I know people that never learned to pack, never did water training...etc. Just because some people break the rules does not mean the process is flawed. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Expand please. I think we should follow aviation's example: Want to fly a complex airplane... Need an instructor to sign you off. Want to fly a high performance airplane.... Need an instructor to sign off. HP would be defined as a WL higher than Brian Germains WL chart. I'd make it an S&TA instead of an instructor. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And it is pretty clear some people will defend him no matter what. Now, for the record, I don't know Bill. Never jumped at his DZ (that I know of). So, I don't have an issue with him personally at all. I do have an issue with owners that ignore MX for long periods. Seems many folks just don't care about the MX and just care about cheap jumps. They have that right. But when people don't know that the owner is skipping MX to save money... then the buyer is being risked without their knowledge. The FAA looked into it and found him guilty. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hey, maybe Bill logs jumps like he fills out aircraft log books ;^) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not hard to imagine that a DZ that skips MX could have more MX issues than a DZ that does the proper MX. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1st DZ (SL) had a radioguy on the ground. 2nd (SL/AFF) had a radioguy on the ground. 3rd (AFF) had a radioguy on the ground 4th (AFF) had a single radio on the ground and all Inst landed near it and one talked all of the students down. 5th (AFF) has each I wear a radio synced to the Student. I prefer the one radio and all the I's landing near it. What happens if the guy synced up lands off? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, now imagine the much higher chance of a plane having an issue when it is not "getting good MX" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is both. Step one (tell them) is education. Step 2 is making sure they understood. Finally, Step 3 is grounding if they refuse to follow the procedures at that DZ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The same way you get someone to land in the correct area on a 400 way. 1. You tell them. 2. You warn them once. 3. You ground them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There already is an answer..... 1. Canopy stacks like Demo jumpers do. Ever watch the GK's? They do an 8-10 way and have one guy landing at a time. They do a quick check of wingloading and the guy with the highest WL lands #1, next #2, next #3... Etc. Guys in the second group land after the first group in their own order. This means the guy with the Sabre 190 should not be spiraling down to try and land first AND the guy with the Velo 90 should not be hanging in breaks trying to land last. In Zhills my 4way team had a guy with a Sabre 135 that was landing with my team. We were the first group out, he was the second group out. He had a Sabre 135, our largest canopy was a Stiletto 107. There is NO reason a guy in the second group with a 135 should be landing with the first groups velos.... 2. Separate landing areas. We are able to land a 400 way without people hitting, but an otter load creates confusion? First group out lands over here, second group out lands over there, third here... etc. Wanna swoop the pond? Do a hop n pop. 3. Keep your head on a swivel. The problem is a Sabre is now considered a "novice" performance canopy. 10 years ago it was "High" performance. The education has not kept up with the equipment and people are getting high performance wings with little experience. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334