Ron

For a guys 100th jump 3 of us went up and took him on a 4way. He turned 17 or 18 points on that jump. Yes, the other three were two serious competitors and the other was a very exp AFFI... But it was a random jump and he did all his own flying. This was before the tunnel. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

WORST reason EVER!!!! Why have an instructor if you are not going to use them? Learning to skydive from the internet is a BAD idea. AFFI, TandemI, SLI. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but last year they won Int. in 2009. with a 13 something. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Negative.... there is no jump numbers mentioned. USPA comp manual 1-1.4.5.c : Hold a currently valid USPA/FAI license for the appropriate discipline and event as follows c. Formation Skydiving (1) Intermediate and Advanced Classes B License (2) Open Class C License (3) 10- and 16-Way B License e So you have to have a MINIMUM license of a "B" for intermediate and advanced, and a MINIMUM license of a "C" for open. But there is nothing that prevents a "D" with 20k jumps from going intermediate. The ONLY restriction is in 5-1.3.E: No team in the Advanced or Intermediate 4-Way Formation Skydiving classes may be composed of more than one quarter of members who have won a gold medal in that class at the five previous U.S. National Skydiving Championships or won a medal in a higher class at the five previous U.S. National Skydiving Championships or in the same event at an FAI First Category Event; the videographer shall not be considered when applying this rule. So one, but only one, member of a team can have a gold in that class, or a medal in a higher class for 5 years. So you could take a member of Airspeed and 3 other guys that have never won a medal in a higher class and go compete in Int if you like. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While true they have not won..... They have placed 2nd in 2008, 2007, 2006, and 2002. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Open has 16 random formations and 22 blocks. 6 of those blocks create memory where two or more peoples job changes between the first page and the second page. The dives are pulled so that each jump has 5-6 points. So for those 6 blocks, you might have to memorize 5-6 points one way and then the same 5-6 points in another slot. Advanced is exactly the same. Just a class where the weekend warrior does not have to compete against Airspeed and the Knights. Intermediate removes those 6 memory creating block moves. So they have the same 16 randoms, but only 16 blocks. Intermediate jumps also only have 4-5 points. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, we will just have to disagree. As a jumper that had a SLJM at 100 jumps and as a jumper that now has ~5000 jumps.... I can tell you that I do a much better job now than when I had 100 jumps. I suspect that you will feel the same way in another 800-1000 jumps. That does not mean I think less of the 100 jump coach. I just think experience is a valuable teaching tool. And they have not been exposed to that much, and therefore can't teach what they don't know. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Jan, thanks for trying. Folks... Jan is not running the show, she is not even in the same state. I'd like to know who the hell in the USPA decided to yank the plug without a suitable replacement!!!! I mean sure if they had another option... But they didn't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And yet here you are bitching about others models and experience? Yep and just as some think doing deco dives are stupid... Yet people who really know about them know they are not death on a stick... I wonder if you can recall when PADI thought Nitrox was a voodoo gas and anyone that wanted to dive it was an idiot? Funny that they now teach it. Why be the guy that once thought Nitrox was a voodoo gas and anyone that used it was asking for death? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is not true, it depends on many factors and 20 feet is not some magical number... It is just an accepted standard. Why SCUBA dive or skydive at all? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Sounds like he didn't really want to teach. That does not disprove my theory. He would of most likely sucked as a coach at 100 jumps, or 10k jumps. 2. A set of one, does not disprove a theory. You think a guy with a good attitude that has 100 jumps and a coach rating would be as good of a coach as the SAME guy when he has 10k jumps? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Short answer: Bad idea. Longer answer: Bad idea. It is a distraction you don't need Long answer: A buddy was getting ready to do his 500th jump. He wanted someone to video him videoing the tandem. So he asked me and my 200(?) jump badass self to fly second camera. We put together a camera system and long story short.... I almost ended up a crater on the DZ. I saw the horizon flash by my feet and I rolled over and tossed instinctively my main while I reached for the reserve. I got a main about ~300 feet AGL. GREAT VIDEO!!!! I wish I knew how to transfer it from VHS to digital so I could post it. The details are not important, but the fact is I got distracted and almost paid with my life. Most considered me to be a pretty heads up guy at the time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, but would you agree that more experience and the same passion often results in a better teacher? Call me silly, but I tend to think more experience often translates to better instruction. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good grief... I'm out. Enjoy putting your wants over your physical and financial well being. I just hope you don't get hurt and if you do I hope you pay the bills YOURSELF instead of expecting others to pay them for you. But since you claim to not be able to afford insurance (yet manage to pay 24 dollars a jump for entertainment) I am willing to bet that you will not be able to pay them and will instead default on them and make society pay for your mistakes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is the very definition of a want and a need. You are confusing wants and needs. And as long as you only hurt yourself, it is your right, IMO. BUT, if you get hurt and refuse to pay your medical bills and the added costs get put on the rest of the population.... Well, you are now stepping on MY toes for your selfish reasons. If you get hurt and your family and friends have to pay your expenses... Then you are hurting THEM for your selfish pursuits. And the world is FULL of people that only think in the short term and do not consider the impact their actions have latter on for them and on others. The world would be a much better place if these people were more responsible for themselves, IMO. OK, but that does not make it a NEED. Just a high priority want. I once thought that skydiving was it all... I practically lived to jump, jumped EVERY weekend, drove an old car, didn't eat out, saved every penny to pay for jumps..... But that did not change it from a want to a need. You can FEEL that way, but it does not change the very definition of the words no matter how much you like it. Skydiving is a HOBBY (unless you make a living doing it). No matter how much you love it, it is still a want. Putting a want over a need is your right (as long as you only hurt yourself, IMO)... But please don't attempt to change the very definitions just to justify your opinion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There are practically no CONS to a large reserve. When all hell breaks loose you will want the largest canopy over your head. You will rather land a 200 in trees than a 90. You can sink a 200 into a tighter landing area than a 90. You have a much higher chance of surviving a landing knocked out under a 200 than a 90. You have a much higher chance of walking away from a bad landing under a 200 than a 90. The issue of the two canopies fighting each other.... I'd rather have more material out in a bad situation than less. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It should. You have "X" number of dollars per mth. There are wants and there are needs. You take care of the needs FIRST, then the wants. If you can't afford insurance to protect you, then you can't afford to play. Unless you are a full time Tandem I (you have less than 500 jumps) or AFF I (not listed in your profile)..... It is not your job... Then by definition it IS A HOBBY. I jump at your home DZ and have not seen you on staff.... You may REALLY love it and feel you can't live without it.... But you could. Skydiving is a WANT, not a NEED. You are confusing the two. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would like to add that for YEARS people wanted to make skydiving "mainstream" and become "professional". While this has several advantages such as gear advancements, better aircraft, better facilities, more jumpers.... It also comes with some drawbacks, like higher costs and how some want to get paid for the services they used to provide for free. Back when I used to be able to do Mullin's "99 dollar Boogie till ya puke" and my cost per jump was about 7 bucks, I used to jump with ANYONE and would often do "free" coaching all weekend. Now that jumps cost 25 dollars a jump I find that I jump less and therefore jump and coach for "free" less. Some think that makes me a bad person.... But I have a budget for skydiving and my team training takes up most of it every mth. Add to that that I was transferred last year, had to sell my house at a loss, moved to a MUCH higher cost city with no additional pay, have not been able to get instructor work at the new DZ, and my budget has gotten tighter so I have even less discretionary income. And anyone that knows me, knows that I give free coaching on the ground pretty much ALL the time. I'd LOVE to jump more.... I just will not go into debt to do it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He will if he breaks a leg and gets a 40k bill. WE will if he does not pay it and WE have to pay higher costs to cover his share. 1. Driving is safer than skydiving. 2. Skydiving is a HOBBY that can be avoided completely. 3. Driving without car INSURANCE is also a bad idea. Lots of people would have been better off if they had followed this advice. To the OP... If you can afford to jump, you can afford insurance. If you can't afford the insurance, you can't afford to jump. You have to have priorities and too many people put immediate gratification over common sense. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I'm leaving tomorrow.... Plan on: 8, 10, 16 way "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My opinion... If you meet the standards and earn the rating.. Good for you. It is not some super secret rating, it a beginner rating. As long as you continue to work on your skills, you are good to go. On certain things... sure. I was a SL JM with 100 jumps. That made me qualified to do a JPI, attach a SL to the plane, open the door and spot. It didn't make me an expert, just rated. The only caveats: 1. They actually earn the rating, not just get something pencil whipped. 2. They realize that it is just a start and continue to work on skills and delivery. There is no doubt that a guy with 10k jumps in most cases is more qualified to coach than a guy with 100. But the guy with 100 performed well enough to pass the course. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

SDD does not suck "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Don't try.... We all went through that stage where we tried to get people excited in our new sport. Most of us grew out of it once we realized: 1. Most people don't care and think you are crazy. You are just going to annoy them by pestering them about it. 2. People who want to skydive will start to ask about it anyway. 3. Imagine your feelings if a buddy you twisted his arm into jumping died on that first jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

#1 you seem to think it is mocking... It is not. It is a continuation of that thread. #2. Just because YOU have not seen it does not mean it has not happened. Does not get more famous than the Pirus Story. Tom Pirus was one of the best skydivers in the WORLD: Pointing out that he didn't use a device that he had that most likely would have saved his life is not "mocking" it is pointing out that even those that do not think they will need something just might. Another Story is the well know mod here who died in 07 after a hook turn went bad. People brought up his quotes while discussing him after the fact as well. Edit to change link and to add: If you wish to continue this discussion about this... Feel free to PM me. Your opinion is noted and opinions like yours were considered before I posted to this thread. I took no joy in that post, but I thought it might provide a good lesson that even if we *know* we are right.... we just may not be. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And if that set of quotes saves lives???? The fact is that what we type stays here for all to see and this is a relevant continuation of that earlier conversation. Just because you don't see it, means exactly just that. It has happened, and will happen again. Maybe, and maybe not. I think they will not in most cases and I have been skydiving 17 years and been on this forum almost 10 years and seen this same story played out time and time again. Maybe, just maybe, some guy that thinks that he knows more than the people who are trying to warn him off the path he is on will read this and frankly it might shock him enough to hit the brakes just a bit and listen. Maybe not. Either way I can sleep at night because I tried to help.... You may not approve, but I'll still sleep tonight. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334